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ACA TA! I voted NO!

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CRJ_Driver

The Man
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
224
While there is no TA, I will 99% vote NO.

As an FO, I can't live alone on the $ I make let alone take the proper financial steps to live a sound future right NOW. How will this change with a pay cut? We will all have to remember the MESA contract provision which states, "No Mesa pilot will wear his uniform while presenting food stamps to purchase meals".

Secondly, I am a professional. There is a marginal chance of flying airplanes in the future for a high dollar amount using your "regional experience" as interviewing leverage.

Consider:

If MESA pilots want busdriver pay....FINE. I will not ride GreyHound which might I add, their Union just approved a TA where Year 2 pay for the 50 seat bus is just under 47.00 an hour. I think I will get my Class A license.

As a business decision, I will vote NO. Why would you do that to yourself?


Any comments?
 
Unless our TA is giving up stupid stuff like our dry cleaning allowance and headset reimbursement, I WILL vote NO.

I understand our MEC had to do something due to politics, but this negotiating, IMHO, is a jesture of good will to the Company. I can think of another jesture:

=ll==
He11, I've already given up soda, ice and snacks on my airplane--what the f*ck else can I give?

Tailwinds...
 
We will all have to remember the MESA contract provision which states, "No Mesa pilot will wear his uniform while presenting food stamps to purchase meals".

you ignorant ass. there is no such language in our contract.

which ever way you vote be prepared to live with it.
 
CRJ Driver, nobody gives a rats a$$ what you think. Quit your whining, the industry has been changed forever and ACA so far has been sheltered by getting a fat paycheck every month from United. Our operation is a joke that burns through money on a daily basis because up until now, it has not mattered. I am sick of going into the crew room and hearing nothing but whining from so called professionals that spend all there time trying to get paid double for work they haven't even done because the company supposedly screwed them.

Why don't you just shut the hell up till you see the formal presentation!!
 
I agree with sideshow.

Chill out and deal with the facts at hand. Regardless of what you think of the Mesa TA, ACA will continue to profit regardless of any concessions offered or not. The reason management wants to lower costs is to maintain a high enough profit margin, at least 8%, so as to obtain the best financing for the the CRJ-700's that we hope to obtain the major share of.

Does it suck that all airlines are cutting and slashing our (pilot's) pay/benefits? No doubt! But I have seen much worse happen at other airlines during the 80's and early 90's.

Personally, I would really have to see a presentation that explained in detail how much pain management is going to share. If management is unwilling to give up huge amounts, it tells me that there is no reason why we should offer concessions at all.

As for the Mesa pilots TA. The Mesa pilots negotiated scope...and nothing else. I do not blame them for that. I do not, however like the use of them as "industry standard"...that is a real insult.

Lets just remember who is on the negotiating committee here. If you know any of the gentlemen then you are aware of their contempt for management. Should the current negotiating committee come back with and recommend any concessions, I would tend to believe them above others. Remember, they have to work under whatever they negotiate and we potentially pass.

My $.02

_______________________________________________

"It takes a big man to cry. It takes a bigger man to laugh at that man".
 
jetdriven said:
you ignorant ass. there is no such language in our contract.

which ever way you vote be prepared to live with it.

There was a thread a while ago that said the same thing. It claimed it was some kind of company memo and not the contract. Even if it isn't true it sounded good.
 
I work for greyhound!

But I wish I made $47.00 an hour.
It's more like $19.80 and since we normally drive about 40 hours a week, it comes out to about $32,000 per year . That's year one.
If Mesa would settle for busdriver pay, they would actually improve.
:)
 
Do you have trips like pilots do or do you start in a city and drive 4 hours and then turn around and come back so you are home every nite? I am not trying to start a fight, I am just curious how the bus world works!
Thanks for the info
 
skypine69 said:
Do you have trips like pilots do or do you start in a city and drive 4 hours and then turn around and come back so you are home every nite? I am not trying to start a fight, I am just curious how the bus world works!
Thanks for the info

I think a lot of us here would like/need to know how it works too. Where do we apply?
 
Re: I work for greyhound!

greyhound said:
.
If Mesa would settle for busdriver pay, they would actually improve.
:)

And so would EVERY REGIONAL IN THE COUNTRY including Comair and air Wisky! What's your point? We all get paid like sh!t year one. -Bean
 
skypine69 &ziggy1

To answer your question.
Their are trips that go out and back every day, but you also have your usual drive for 8 to 10 hours, go to the hotel, and return the next day type of trips. It is not a cross-country driving job like most people think. I am rarely away for more than 2 days.
I don't know if I would recommend this place as a career, but I would only be giving you my opinion. Some people stay here long term.
I'm based in Ca. so I don't go out farther than a 450 mile radius before getting turned back to my base. We bid 4 times a year.
I'm currently on reserve so I don't have any set hours or days off.
But I can request any days I want to be off. Just call dispatch, tell them you are not available for the next 12-24 or 48 hours, and you won't get a call. I will miss that kind of flexability when I leave.

BEANTOWN.
The only reason I brought up Mesa, is because it was brought up on earlier replies. You are correct, all regionals would improve if they settled for Greyhound pay. I was not trying to make a point.

:cool:
 
I doubt the concessions are for 700's. No matter what happens, mesa and other carriers can fly them cheaper than we can...also remember that mesa is already flying 700's as well. I don't see any incentive for United to allow us to fly 700's.

We better face the facts...if we want to start making serious money we have to go out there and do it ourselves. The days of getting fat checks from the majors are gone.

We have a great pilot group and I think many in the company would feel proud to fly ACA jets painted in our own colors. We have a great product...with the right marketing and "BRANDING" we can be successful.

House
 
I hope this doesn't turn into another "Anyone know if Burger King is hiring? What are their mins?" thread.......

I think a lot of us here would like/need to know how it works too. Where do we apply?
 
Going it on our own.

I would love to think that ACA would make it on its own. Mama always said don't put all your eggs in one basket. Well that's what we did with United.

My only concern is the niche in wich ACA wants to fill. Tom Moore wants us to be a regional low cost airlines. The Southwest of the Regionals. I just don't know if that can be done. He even stated at his Roadshow we have the wrong planes to start it with. So maybe 70 seaters who knows. Maybe there is a market for the Low cost regional carrier and we'll become the leader to find it. I know if that happens I'll lose my job for now. I just have some serios doubts about were ACA sees itself as its own airline.
 
I certainly don't think that ACAI will go under if United Packs it in. I just don't agree with their buisness model for operating on their own. It will take a major effort to go it on their own but I don't think that will be the end of ACA. The market for Regional Jets is to good to just fold becuase United doesn't survive.
 
read one of the last 8-K's for yourself. If UAL ceases operations then ACAI will quickly ha ve to find another codeshare partner, there WILL be an interruption of service, and if they are unable to find a codeshare partner fast then the company will not survive.
 
But they WILL find a codeshare. With so many jets that have financing, any airline who wants instant growth would snap them up. Now, would ACA get to keep their current cushy pay and QOL (cushy regarding other regionals, at least. Pathetic compared with mainline)? I would think if labor insisted on that, then ACA would die. I'm willing to bet ACA would take massive concessions before going under if it comes to it. If UA goes Chapter 7, we'll see what pans out.

I don't think ACA could go it alone. Where could they compete? All the big cities are already covered by the majors, and the economies of scale for a 737 would kill a CRJ-900 or -700, let alone a -200. Without a feed, all that'd be left is point-to-point from smaller markets to other small markets, such as Reno, Savanah, Sacramento, etc. There's just not enough market there. ACA would get killed if they competed directly against any major with their current equipment. Maybe charter would work, but that's allot of furloughs. The last start-up to last more than a couple years is America West. Jet Blue is looking like they'll make it too. But 2 in almost a quarter century? The #'s speak for themselves.

-Boo!
 
I will put in my two cents in since I am back home for a bit.
I thought US Air would go chapter 7 and so did their labor unit. Two pilots from US Air are with my squadron, while one was furloughed and the other still flying. The one pilot still employed told me he thought they would go Chapter 7, but they turned everything around. Now we see UAL and the same statements about US Air is being said about UAL. With all the statements floating around I say wait and see. If US Air did it so can UAL. And if I am not mistaken, US Air was in more finance trouble than UAL.
 
C141FE said:
The one pilot still employed told me he thought they would go Chapter 7, but they turned everything around.

I don't mean to be a party pooper, but just because USAir emerged from Chap. 11 doesn't mean they've turned things around. They're still losing money and are spending borrowed money. UAL will also have the benefit of emerging from Chap 11 during a (hopefully) better time for the industry.

I wish only the best for all my fellow pilots so the previous statement is not meant as a bash against anybody, nor is it a prediction of any future events.
 
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From: Mic Heynekamp <moabmic@y...>
Date: Thu May 8, 2003 1:09 pm
Subject: Interesting article from "TheStreet.com"




Getting Rich Off the Poor Man's Southwest Air

By Eric Gillin
Staff Reporter
05/08/2003 03:05 PM EDT
Click here for more stories by Eric Gillin


Looking to invest in an airline that has solid earnings growth,
double-digit percentage traffic growth, good control over costs and
isn't named JetBlue (JBLU :Nasdaq - news -commentary -research
-analysis) or Southwest (LUV :NYSE - news -commentary -research
-analysis) ?

Consider Mesa Air Group (MESA :Nasdaq - news -commentary -research
-analysis) , a small regional carrier operating out of Phoenix, serving
150 markets as a code-share partner for big guys like America West (AWA
:NYSE - news -commentary -research -analysis) and US Airways . Last
week, the company announced second-quarter earnings that handily topped
Wall Street estimates and on Wednesday, it said traffic was up 31% in
the first four months of 2003.

Savvy investors already have caught on to the Mesa story, doubling the
stock since it hit $3 on March 13, when it was depressed by war fears.
But even after the move, long-term buyers could see additional upside
as the company continues to move away from unprofitable turboprops and
into the regional jets that its larger partners prefer.

Vertical Stabilizer

"The stock has certainly had a nice run, but there's a lot of
opportunity left at this company," said Anthony Cristello, airline
analyst at BB&T Capital Markets. (BB&T hasn't done banking for Mesa.)
"As long as they grow their ability to continue financing aircraft,
there's a material opportunity for long-term growth with US Air."

Cristello isn't alone -- six of the nine analysts covering the company
have it rated at buy or better and none with a sell rating. In
comparison, only four of the 14 analysts covering Southwest have it at
buy or better, with two analysts calling it a sell.

There's reason for optimism. With Mesa trading between $6 and $7 a
share, its price-to-earnings multiple is about 7.5 times 2004 earnings.
That's less than Southwest, currently trading at 29.2 times 2004
earnings, and also JetBlue, which goes for 22 times 2004 earnings.

Investors seeking to avoid the labor showdowns recently seen at AMR
(AMR :NYSE - news -commentary -research -analysis) can sleep easy
buying Mesa. Last quarter, the company signed a 4 1/2-year contract
with pilots and extended its deal with flight attendants, making labor
negotiations a relative nonissue for the next few years.

Drag Coefficients

But investing in airlines, even ones with apparent upside, is always
risky, and it's important to consider Mesa's potential pitfalls.
Mesa was founded in 1982 and previously served the Southwest region
mostly, with propeller planes, ferrying customers in and out of
underserved markets. But as code-sharing's popularity surged,
especially over the last few years, the company has been adding more
and more regional jets, chasing business from larger carriers.
Currently, Mesa plans to jump from the 70 regional jets it had at the
end of 2002 to nearly 170 by the end of 2005.

But expanding capacity and buying more planes during the worst downturn
in the history of commercial aviation is a daunting task, especially
when it comes to finding financing. (Standard and Poor's and Moody's
both have downgraded airline credit ratings in recent months.) More
than fuel costs, labor negotiations or any other factor, Mesa's ability
to raise cash to buy planes will determine its success -- and is the
biggest risk investors must stomach.

"They certainly are one of the lower-cost regional airlines and their
ability to get jets will drive their growth," said Cristello. "They're
partners with US Air, who are clearly willing to give them growth as
long as they can provide jets."

Blue Birds Over

Indeed, US Airways, which just emerged from bankruptcy protection a
month ago, is at the heart of Mesa's growth story. Mesa derives 50% of
its revenue from and currently flies 40 planes in conjunction with US
Air and has plans to add 12 more in 2003. Recently, the company signed
a letter of intent to provide another 50 planes to US Air and is
currently in discussions with management over how to proceed with the
planned expansion.

Because a letter of intent is not a binding contract, the major issue
is how and when Mesa must deliver that many planes. And while Cristello
believes that Mesa's ability to finance these jets will improve as the
airline industry recovers, some analysts caution that management could
be overreaching if it has to add 50 planes all at once.
" [The] carrier reports that it has interim financing lined up
for most of its regional jet deliveries in 2003, which helps alleviate
near-term growth uncertainty," said Brian Harris, analyst at Citigroup
Smith Barney, in a report from last Friday. "But that still leaves
about 15 other undelivered regional jets that are not financed."

In Harris' view, there are too many uncertainties out there to value
Mesa based on 2004 earnings expectations. He estimates there could be
as much as 10 cents per share downside to his 2004 earnings estimates
if the company can't finance what it plans to add. But even Harris is
cautiously optimistic, telling investors that "with the economy
expected to improve, we think the potential upside scenario is more
likely than not."

Propellers

If the financing issue can be managed and the details of the letter of
intent with US Air worked out, then going forward, there are some
catalysts that could certainly boost Mesa shares.

In addition to greater clarity on its situation with US Air, Mesa also
has a bid in with UAL , parent of bankrupt United Airlines, to expand
its role as a code-share partner with that carrier. While company CEO
Jonathan Ornstein was bound by a confidentiality agreement and couldn't
disclose details in a recent conference call, he did add that he felt
Mesa's bid had a good shot.

"I think our offer is extremely competitive," said Ornstein. "And based
on United's own documents that they filed in the bankruptcy, it would
be significantly below their current cost. That's not to say that our
competitors will not sharpen their pencils
 
re: ACA going at it alone

If you eh el goes TU...

I don't think ACA will have to prospect going at it alone. Me thinks that Whisky, Skywest, and ACA could make a fighting effort as a code-share network. Somehow, someway, get some IAD/LAX, IAD/Bay Area, IAD/ORD, ORD/West Coast flights and you may have a treader (as in treading water). Oh. ACA would have to beef up the Florida schedules and markets.

Why do I think this might work for at least ACA? If you look at the feed as it is, ACA runs 4 banks at IAD, UA runs ONE. The rest of their daily schedule is other hub feeds. I don't have the stats on the international flights on the current schedule, but every int'l city was served on the 5pm. Only three (LHR, FRA, CDG) were served at times other than 5pm. FRA and CDG had additional one additional flight at 9pm, and LHR had two more throughout the day. Now, the two AM LHR departures are gone, and the third departs between the 5pm and 9pm bank.
 

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