ACA: No to Yes....

[Jeepman]

Another alter-ego airline???


THIS IS GETTING AS OLD AS FOX'S REALITY TV SHOWS!!!

 

[FOB]

Show me the money!

As a furloughed Blue Ridger, I have to strongly agree with the idea of all the "yes" voters sending me their "extra" cash. Had I known you were all overpaid, I would have asked earlier and beat management to it!

For the record, 5 years is a scam and I hold the beloved union reps to blame for the shafting. Mgt did what they are supposed to do, unfortunately the pilot group has not.

In addition, I found it amusing to hear the compassion my company has to the furloughees come out during the road shows. Having been directly involved, I can tell you the whole process was (is) cold, tacky and indifferent. Only the ORD CHF PLT, on his own initiative, has shown any sincerity. Thanks Dave!

Skywest is supposed to be the dreaded bastard non-union carrier, but they keep coming up roses! It appears the strong brotherhood of ALPA has the consistency of a fine fertilizer!

How does that song go? "You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything!" Good job boys!

 

[AirBoard]

Re: Show me the money!

[B
How does that song go? "You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything!" Good job boys! [/B]

That just about sums it up right there. I'd like to plaster that all over the ACA propaganda machine that is the ALPA MEC page, ACAway, ACAlink (thanks Mr. Coulter. nice touch) and the 'you let me down Mr. chief pilot' Hotline.

This thing is going to pass and I'm going to be making 1K more (when you consider loss of soft pay) in 2008 as I'm making now. Have any of you tried to get a mortgage on that salary - the bank's going to love your profile, 5 years later and you're only making that?!? Are you sure your a pilot? ACA is not going to disappear if we vote this TA down. But we will be making sh*T for 5-7 more years if we say YES. Don't forget about the inflation rate - assuming it stays at a conservative 2% per annum over the next 5-7 years the purchasing power of your money will decline to the point you'll be worse off in 2008 than you are now.

 

[buttercup]

Rats

I hope you potential ACA yes voters will take into account the sacrifices those before you have made. I've heard every excuse as to why Yes votes will be cast..everything from ohh my the company needs the money, or better yet, I need PIC time to move one. Move on to what? At ACA you are sitting in the Alpha and the Omega of where this industry will be in 5 years. When I was on strike with Comair, I was proud to march alongside men with families and mortgages and mouths to feed who said'"Fine shut it down, I'll manage somewhere else" Not that this would even happen at ACA, but this attitude of "Ohh flying is all I want to do and love so let me do it at all costs".. I'll stop now I just get frustrated with how we put our ass on the line at Comair and now I have to watch Mesa and possibly ACA pull this crap.

 

[j41driver]

As far as the last sentence, you must have ACA confused with Skywest. SKY will fly the 70 at 50 rates...we have 70 rates established. Again, please get the facts before posting.

You're only half correct here. There is a different 70 seat CA payscale, but the FO's will fly the CRJ700 for CRJ200 pay.

 

[pilotwannabe]

Yes the fo's will get a blended rate for aicraft 50 seats or more. THis is absolute crap and sets a very bad precedent. The company will want to do this for whatever larger aircraft we get. They will simply want to keep the blended rate and keep the captains happy by giving them a raise. It worked once why not do it again. This is one of biggest reasons why I voted no. This agreement sells out the fo's and junior guys no question about it. Again, it's bullsh*t too think captains get a raise for larger airplanes but fo's do not. Atleast give us a 2 or 3 percent bump and do not give me some chart crap that says I get paid 19% too much.

 

[46Driver]

Aren't there some companies (I heard UPS and Alaska) that don't care about aircraft size - just right / left seat and years of service (similiar to the military with rank and years of service?)

 

[pilotwannabe]

Yes but they also pay a decent wage. How can u even compare aca to ups or alaska? ACA is only developing a blended rate for fo's not captains. Seems kinda weird to me that only one group gets it but not the other.

 

[46Driver]

Maybe because I came from the military, I thought the whole civilian pay scale was strange and the UPS model much more simple and efficient. As for our case, I was talking to some other pilots and we agreed that one of the areas that we could become more efficient is to have 1 FO payscale. Just our opinion....

 

[pilotwannabe]

to be honest it's not a bad idea man.

 

[46Driver]

Everything has its pros and cons but we thought it would help out the J-41 & Dornier FO's (I am on the CRJ pay lock myself so I would probably lose).

The idea went along the lines of:
1) all FO's are paid the same.
2) the company hires according to aircraft and you are seat-locked for 2 or 3 years.
3) the FO is called by the company and has either the choice of going where assigned or waiting in a pool (with the loss of seniority) until the domicile he wants opens up.

The company saves in training costs while the FO gets the domicile he wants. Anyway, just an idea....

 

[surplus1]

As for our case, I was talking to some other pilots and we agreed that one of the areas that we could become more efficient is to have 1 FO payscale. Just our opinion....

Couldn't you also become "more efficient" (your way to spell cheap) by having 1 CA pay scale as well? If it hasn't occurred to you, the reason FO's will have a common pay scale and Captains will not, is because Captains run the show in your political wing and it was easier to cut somebody else's pay than it was to cut their own.

The real question you should be asking is wheter or not your company will continue to thrive without any pay cuts at all and whether or not it will do better with pay cuts.

Obviously the majority of you appear to believe the promises that you will do better if you cut your pay, and the threats that you will cease to exist if you do not.

Your answers to the question are the very reason that compensation in the regionals is what it is; too low. Looks like it is doomed to stay that way.

In the smarts contest it is clear as a bell who came away with the smarts and it wasn't pilots. Congratulations to management, they've won again.

(Of course you could prove me wrong by voting NO, but I wouldn't even bet a day's pay on that possibility.)

 

[46Driver]

If you take 6 CRJ FO's, 2 FRJ FO's, and 2 J-41's FO's (used as an example, the actual ratio is different) , sum their pay and then divide it equally, then the company is still paying the same amount of labor cost. The company saves in reduced training costs while the pilot group gets the preferred domicile.

As for what I believe:

1) The industry is in turmoil due to both the down economy as well as too much supply and not enough demand.

2) Our major partner - United - is in bankruptcy.

3) We are being whipsawed on line by line item expense by the BAIN corporation.

If any of those 3 points are wrong, I am sure you will correct them.