ACA: No to Yes....

[70Cuda]

I've been listing to quite a lot of arguments regarding how ACA should vote on their TA. Initially I was all for voting "NO," unfortunately, when I look at the situation realistically I can only conclude that a "NO" vote would only do more harm than good for the company.

I now believe, since ALL of the other UEX regionals have sold out, ACA must vote their Bullsh!t TA into effect if they want to compete for any United contracts. UAL has the leverage against the regionals. That is the bottom line. And why do they have the leverage..........because of ALPA. ALPA sold us out starting with MESA. If they actually knew what they were doing and how to run a union they would have organized with all the other regional pilot groups to stand against Ornstien and the rest. Instead, they chose to look out for themselves and said F_ck the rest of the brotherhood.

I hear a lot of ACA pilots saying "full pay to the last day." Well, for those who vote "NO" I hope you sincerely know what the consequences are because from all the misinformation and rhetoric I hear from most of the pilots in the crew room most don't know what they are talking about. I hear so much rediculous speculation taken for fact it's starting to make my head hurt. Pilots are essentially creating their own false realities base solely on emotion and no facts. ACA will acomplish NOTHING by voting "YES." The die has already been cast. Maybe in the future it can be undone if ALPA gets their Sh!t together.

The bottom line is: we either all stand together as regional pilots and create a better future, or we look out only for ourselves and sink to the bottom (yes, I'm talking to you, MESA) . Well, it looks like we've made our choices. ACA now has no choice.

My hat is off to the COMAIR pilots for standing up for what they value.

 

[skootertrash]

But why does it need to be in effect for 5-6 years?

 

[Diesel]

ACA allready sent in their proposal to ual before they asked for concessions from the pilots.

So how is taking concessions going to make aca more competitive. Are they going to re submit their bid.

Again 5 years jesus. We'll be back on the downturn by the time the 5 years are over.

70cuda- How could you look yourself in the mirror for flying a 70 seat rj for 50 seat wages.

 

[walkthasky]

because it does..

And if you all vote it down "there wont be another TA, you guys did it to yourselves". Right from T.M.'s mouth. He was in the crew room yesterday. Hes desperate obviously. Skywest has 50% of the flying already!!! Were screwed either way, but at least with a YES we may remain somewhat stagnant. Im getting furloughed either way so a yes or no doesnt help me, but a yes helps the company, and maybe i can come back in the future. Vote no and all of you will be sitting at home with a 100% paycut. But wait, i forgot this LCC there planning on is gonna be great, yeah right...I agree with Cuda, everyone is in fantasyland but if they want pay to the last day, then there gonna get there last day...
just the "facts"...

And how do we know there will be an upturn soon, so how can there be a downturn in 5 yrs. The airline industry could be crippled for a while longer, you never know.

 

[Redtailer]

I just want to ask the question: HOW WOULD YOU EXPECT MANAGEMENT TO PROTRAY THE SITUATION?

My point is this, if management really wanted you to agree to a crappy TA then why wouldn't they paint the bleakest picture possible to everyone and have them repeat it.

As someone said to me perception is reality.

What an idea, management lying to everyone. No, that would never happen.

If you vote the TA down make no mistake that the negotiations will continue. I doubt management would just lick their wounds and fold.

Good Luck!!!!!

 

[g159av8tor]

I look at the situation realistically I can only conclude that a "NO" vote would only do more harm than good for the company.

ACA now has no choice.

My hat is off to the COMAIR pilots for standing up for what they value.

Flaim bait? Maybe? Your comments uninformed and juvenile, YES!!!

No choice? Are you kidding? SKW pilots gave no concessions and will fly 70 seaters at our old 50 seat rate. Whose the a$$hole?

If UAL can afford SKW at their current pilot rates (which are 2% below ours at ACA--basically our ALPA dues) then they can afford us as well! Also, if you think for one minute that our MGT would hinge the success of ACA on this one TA, please reconsider. Furthermore, If you don't think ACA has been awared the flying already and is waiting to announce it how SKW did AFTER their TA passed, wake up.

We have a choice, vote NO!!!

Otherwise, we are no better than Mesa. And Skeen and Moore will laugh all the way to the bank while our 96 furloughs stand in line at the unemployment office. Dude, wake the f*ck up.
I'm reminded of a true story told to me from the number one on the J-41 CA whom is in my crashpad and a fellow Hotlantian.

BAck in 1995-6 ACA was in a worse financial situation and bequested to lay most of the financial burden of health insurance expenses on the pilots and FAs.

The FAs stood their ground and gave Skeen et al the 'ole finger.
The frighted pilots, ever scared and always "just wanting to fly" gave in and signed a LOA to help shoulder the financial strain of health care from the company.

To THIS day, FAs don't pay a f*ck'n dime towards their health insurance while we pilots front our underpaid portion.

That scare tactic worked before, don't let it work again. It's BS and propaganda what you hear from the company.

Vote NO!!!

Tailwinds...

 

[House_X]

Please name ONE GUARANTEE that this TA would give to us pilots who fly the line.

Here it is: We will make less $$$$ than we do right now.

If we vote yes all of the horrible economic constraints made by United would still have an adverse effect. The TA will not ensure we stay at our current level and it will not ensure we will stay in business. Will it increase our chances of staying in business?
THIS ISN'T VEGAS!!! This is our future, our livelyhood and our career!

You give me ONE SOLID GUARANTEE in this TA and I will entertain a yes vote.

Economics 101...NEVER SIGN A BAD CONTRACT!!!!!!!

House

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Folks,
Dont bite on the bait, they used doom and gloom on the pilots at Skywest.
"700+ or 53% of the pilots were fooled and bit down hard on the bait, less than 6 hours after the "vote" UAL announced an 11 year MOU with SKYW. Turns out, the deal was done days prior and mgmt was just looking for a way to increase profits to pre-9/11 rates. Thats right, pre-9/11 profits when everyone is loosing money (including UAL). You ask how can that happen, fuzzy math(enron, ect), if earnings can be fudged one way, cannot they be fudged the other way also?
How can USAirways come out of bankruptcy and state they have 1.5 bil. in the bank? Ask some very hard questions of youself, could UAL afford to lose your feed, if you strike? Didn't think so, you strike, the routes won't get flown, period, dot, end of sentence. You say what about SKYW? I will not step over a picket line for anyone. The one thing that the "700+ or 53% are afraid of is being labled "scab" by any A.L.P.A. carrier, since their ultimate plan is to go to a "Major airline".
Do what is best for you, not anyone else(this brotherhood stuff is crap), a large portion of the aspiring pilots today would take YOUR job in a second if they could(PFT).
Stay hard, keep your powder dry
Look out for yourself
PBR

 

[Machdog1]

What world are you livining in?

I don't know what happen along the way, but I will tell you right now there will be noooooooo talks again if this TA is voted down. Was there talks when we voted done the charter TA. I was at Tom Moores, "crew room" meeting and he said that if we vote no the are no other options. I think the people who still are voting no are the ones who should really look into the mirror, you might have your self respect but you want have your job, by all means if you want to quit because the pay is to low, do it and go find that other job that I here is so easy to find maybe I will be able to keep my job or move up the senorioty poll. I am doing want I have to, to keep this company going and my career going. I really think the people who are voting no do not have all of the information, and are filled with so much distrust, I am afraid you are going to make the wrong choice. Believe me I hope I am wrong, and if you are from all the FACTS that I have heard still voting no, Good luck to you and all of us!!

 

[acaTerry]

After reading this thread, all I can say is: go back to high school, some of you. It's enough that this sounds like the lunchroom in school. Name calling, kicking sand at everyone. And besides, can ANYONE spell?!! All I hear around me is people so concerned about which airline requires college. Some posts almost carry some credibility, IF THEY COULD PERFORM SIMPLE EIGHTH GRADE SPELLING. Man, everybody needs to calm down.
Mesa sucks...SkyWest sucks...Comair sucks....knock it off. Mesa did what they had to do TO STOP FREEDOM. If ACA pilots sign this TA then DON"T SAY A WORD ABOUT MESA PILOTS. Geez, it's like arresting the hooker and letting the customer go free.
The industry stinks now. Period. It sucks for almost everyone. This is a collective problem, not due to this pilot group or that pilot group. Just sit down in your airplane and do your job. You wanted to be pilots, so be pilots. The guys ahead of us have seen times like this, probably more than once. They fought their fights, and did their jobs. If ACA is doing so bad that the TA will make or break it, then that's T.M.'s fault, not some guy flying for this airline or that airline.
I think I'll just stop coming into this website, at least the Regional section. It amazes me how coming in here to look for information or fun talk has turned into a pi$$ing match between pilot groups.