Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

ACA & MESA court day 2

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

dashtrasher

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Posts
154
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 11, 2003; Page E04


A lawyer for Mesa Air Group Inc. told a federal judge yesterday that the carrier faced serious obstacles that could thwart its effort to acquire Dulles-based Atlantic Coast Airlines Holdings Inc.



"We cannot be certain that a merger will be completed or not," Mesa attorney Gregory A. Markel told U.S. District Judge Rosemary M. Collyer during the final day of a two-day hearing on Atlantic Coast's request for a temporary injunction to block the takeover. Collyer is expected to issue her ruling within a week.

Mesa launched its hostile bid for Atlantic Coast in October. Atlantic Coast had announced in July that it planned to sever its 14-year United Airlines partnership as a regional operator of United Express flights and transform itself into a low-fare carrier.

In court, Markel cited Atlantic Coast's injunction request as one key obstacle to Mesa's takeover. Atlantic Coast has gone to court to block Mesa's move, arguing that Mesa and United Airlines used anti-competitive tactics in a bid to stop Atlantic Coast from becoming a low-cost airline.

Markel also said another Atlantic Coast partner, Delta Air Lines Inc., could ultimately help quash the takeover bid. Under an existing contract between Atlantic Coast and Delta, Delta has the option of canceling its partnership if Atlantic Coast's ownership changes. A cancellation would saddle the new owner with upkeep costs of $20 million a year on 30 outdated Fairchild Dornier jets that Atlantic Coast uses on the Delta flights. That additional cost could make Mesa's unsolicited offer, now valued at $461 million, less attractive for Mesa shareholders. Mesa said it was in talks with Delta about the contract.

The uncertainties made it unclear "if Mesa will be successful" in its takeover attempt, Markel said.

On Tuesday, the Securities and Exchange Commission said that Mesa could begin soliciting votes from Atlantic Coast shareholders on its proposal that Atlantic Coast's board be voted out and replaced by a slate picked by Mesa. But Mesa executives were waiting for a ruling from Collyer before they begin soliciting Atlantic Coast shareholders.
 
dashtrasher said:
A cancellation would saddle the new owner with upkeep costs of $20 million a year on 30 outdated Fairchild Dornier jets that Atlantic Coast uses on the Delta flights.


"Outdated" DoJets? That's an odd choice of words.
 
Intruder One,
What does being slow have to do with being outdated. The CRJ is a slow jet, is it outdated? Just because the Donier is no longer in business doesn't mean the jets are outdated. You are showing you know about as much as the typical reporter which is nothing.
 
727RedTails said:
Intruder One,
What does being slow have to do with being outdated. The CRJ is a slow jet, is it outdated? Just because the Donier is no longer in business doesn't mean the jets are outdated. You are showing you know about as much as the typical reporter which is nothing.



Not to get in the middle of a pissin g contest, but.. Do you really think the CRJ is slow? Do you know what our cruise speed is? And how our cruise speed compares to larger aircraft like the 737, md88, f100 ?
 
It is slow in the climb, no doubt, and it takes a long time to climb. Sure, it is fast descending---but so is everything. A 737-200 can climb to cruise at 320 kts/.76 all the way up to cruise, and that is an old airplane. On the CRJ jumpseats I have done, they had a hard time keeping 250 through 16-17,000ft and up.

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes:
 
I was leading the pack out of MCO today heading north. Atc, for some reason, starts asking speed in climb to the guys behind me, and slowing all of them. When he got to me-say speed-I said 320, he asked again, I said 320, he asked a third time-320 pause, all other aircraft "normal speed"....LOL...(It was a repo flight though...ERJ)

B
 
Interesting. Every 737-200 I ever js on cruised at .67 or less. And your saying they climb at .76 or they can climb at .76?
An airplane that cruises at .77, and can cruise at .80 with a little more gas is not a "slow" airplane. I thought it was funny that the guy was bashing another pilot for not "knowing" airplanes while he was making an obvious uninformed comment about the crj. It is not a "slow" airplane. And I won't argue with you about the 200. I only know what I have seen from the js, and they never cruised faster than .67 when I was on board. In fact, it was usually .63 or so.
 
General, you must have been climbing on one engine if they can't maintain 250 through 16,000. Yes the CRJ is slow in the climb but not that slow. We can maintain 290 through about 230 then it starts to slow down, however the mach number usually never gets below .68 or so. The trick is to not climb at 1500 to 2000 ft/min. Climb out at 1000 ft/min passing 180 and the CRJ does just fine
 
The CRJ-700 is anything but slow in both speed and climb. The engine restrictions were recently removed and it will take off from the short runway in Key West, full pax, climb easily at 250/290/.74 to 370 and sometimes 410 (19 min to 370) and then cruise at .80 with no problem at any altitude.

The CRJ-200 is very temperature critical regarding climb performance. At ISA+10 temps in the climb, you will usually slow down to 500 fpm after FL220-250, but then you can maintain that into the low to mid 30's. Cruise speed at your final altitude is usually flight planned at .77. After level off, the plane will usually have no problem maintaining that speed.
 
Like I said before everyone elsed stepped in........the Dork is old and slow and cannot begin to achieve the speeds mentioned.The ERJ climbs a little faster but it and the CRJ are heads and shoulders above the Dork.Ride a few JS's you'll see what I mean.
 
General Lee said:
It is slow in the climb, no doubt, and it takes a long time to climb. Sure, it is fast descending---but so is everything. A 737-200 can climb to cruise at 320 kts/.76 all the way up to cruise, and that is an old airplane. On the CRJ jumpseats I have done, they had a hard time keeping 250 through 16-17,000ft and up.

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes:

If memory serves me correct the Vmo on the guppie is less than the CRJ cruises at. Thats why they (guppies) got the nick name in Europe of "flying road blocks" or "slugs" (-200) or "super slugs" (-300).
 
afellowaviator,

What? I flew the 737-200 for 1 year out of MCO and we always cruised at .76 or.77. Where did you come up with .67????? A case of dislexia? Do you know how slow .63 is at cruise at FL330 etc?? Maybe Single Engine? That really is slow--like a Dojo. We climbed at 320 until it changed over, and we climbed at the equivalent up to cruise, and then cruised at .76 or .77---but that was it. When we followed 757s southbound over Dixon towards FLL, they blew by us at .82, and if they had to follow us, they always asked for higher. I am so happy NOT to be in that 737-200 now, and I like being the faster one now. But, even that plane was fast in the climb, certainly faster than your RJ--all the way to cruise.

Bye Bye---General Lee;) :rolleyes:

PS--I just found my old 737 POM and the max turbulent Airspeed is 280/.70 . So, what you are saying is that cruising at .67 or .63---and you hit turbulence, you should INCREASE your airspeed?? Doesn't make sense. We cruised at .76 or .77---; )
 
Last edited:
Jetscream32,

What I meant was that the rate of climb $ucked if you wanted to go fast in the climb. The CRJ-50 has problems going fast and climbing fast above FL180. I don't think anyone would disagree with me on that. (unless it was empty) The 737 was old, but it could climb fast and stay fast. At cruise, it was limited to about .77 max, with .76 more likely. I really don't care about that one anymore, since I currently fly one that has a great climb and is very fast. Don't get me wrong, I am glad Delta has a lot of RJs and they probably saved our collective a$$---but as far as flying behind them outbound from ATL, I think they need special RJ departures with their own routings. Often I am told to slow or maintain 280 or less in the climb etc.... The 70 seater is an improvement, though.

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes:
 
Intruder One,
I just flew the CRJ for 7 hours today, its slow! I have never seen it at .80, but maybe thats because it can't get to 330 or above with any kind of load. I flew the 727 and we would cruise at .83 and above, all those airplanes were built 20-30 years ago. The DoJets are all built no more than 5 years ago. Anyway, if your a professional pilot you get paid by the hour so the slower the better!
 
727RedTails said:
Intruder One,
I just flew the CRJ for 7 hours today, its slow! I have never seen it at .80, but maybe thats because it can't get to 330 or above with any kind of load. I flew the 727 and we would cruise at .83 and above, all those airplanes were built 20-30 years ago. The DoJets are all built no more than 5 years ago. Anyway, if your a professional pilot you get paid by the hour so the slower the better!


Argh the 727 - now THATS a machine :) Loved it. It's up there with the Diesel 8
 
Hijacked thread BTW.

Speed smeeed. I get paid by the hour and the only time I really feel the speed is close to the ground. And the Dojet is never close to the ground for very long. I think you probably noticed that on your js experience. ;)
 
727RedTails said:
Intruder One,
I just flew the CRJ for 7 hours today, its slow! I have never seen it at .80, but maybe thats because it can't get to 330 or above with any kind of load. I flew the 727 and we would cruise at .83 and above, all those airplanes were built 20-30 years ago. The DoJets are all built no more than 5 years ago. Anyway, if your a professional pilot you get paid by the hour so the slower the better!



So .77 is slow FOR cruise? Sounds like you should just be happy you got a job any way.
 
Darn,
I scrolled all the way down this thread to see if any fellow blue ridgers went to the second day of the court hearing and would post anything gleened from the self induced headache that doing so would incurr.

All I got was a "mine's bigger than yours" thread. :-(

Cute gate agent: "You have a nice one, sir."
Me: "Thanks, it's a big one as well, see ya next time."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.......
 
this is stupid

I love how this post starts out about something interesting and turns out to be a pissing contest. Who cares about a stupid CRJ FRJ or a 737. You are not the only ones who fly them. Grow up
 
Easy there chief, this is an open forum and people can say what they want. Chill out. Someone stated a fact that wasn't true, and was called on it. Have a better day.

Bye Bye--General Lee;)
 
I'm sorry General, but I took-off this afternoon from BTR in a CRJ-700 three minutes ahead of a B-737-200. The DAL pilot made some crack about having to follow us to ATL (we both laughed to ourselves at the stupid prick, why do these DAL pilots always feel the need to say something stupid on the radio.......wind check).

We climbed out at 300 KIAS to FL290, then cruised at 315 KIAS (M.79) most of the way to ATL (eventually they slowed us to 250 KAIS). The last I saw of the DALPA B-737 on TCAS, he was more than 50 miles behind us. We never heard him on the radio. I guess following us wasn't so bad after all?
 
Hey sleepy,
Who do you think has the last laugh when the day is done and the Delta pilot gets their paycheck and you get yours? Just stating the obvious.
 
Yeah Sleepy, your CRJ700 might have a nicer cockpit and cruise faster, but the 737 FO's car is a lot nicer and goes faster....Which would you rather have??

Look, I said the CRJ700 is a big improvement over the CRJ50---and you and I know that. The 737 is faster in the climb than the CRJ50 and can cruise at .77, which isn't bad. I DO LIKE YOUR CR7's, THOUGH. And, there have been times I have wondered whether or not some of your guys should have asked for a wind check. Watching some of your ATRs land while waiting to takeoff on 27R is fun......

Bye Bye--General Lee;) :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
General Lee said:
Yeah Sleepy, your CRJ700 might have a nicer cockpit and cruise faster, but the 737 FO's car is a lot nicer and goes faster....Which would you rather have??

Nice and pathetic! You guys hiring so I can afford that nice and fast car - didn't think so, I'll have to milk a couple more years out of mine.
 
Hey, Sleepy was making fun of Delta pilots, and the Redtails guy who was furloughed pointed that out to him also. Tit for tat.

Bye Bye--General Lee;)
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom