ACA furloughs

[sejac]

I am in the pool at ACA. My class date was supposed to be around October before the news of the furloughs. I have not heard to much information after the fourloughs. Obviously that will be pushed back and I hope not canceled. Just wondering if any ACA pilots out there or anyone for that matter has heard what ACA's plans are, etc.

 

[inthepool]

I'm also in the pool, and before the furloughs was told to expect an April 2004 class date. There have been no replies to my emails from ACA, so I don't know what's going on, and I suspect they're not sure themselves. The guys at pilot recruiting seem like a good bunch, so I figure once they know we'll know.

 

[Bluto]

Anything would be a guess at this point

If United liquidates it could be a very long time. From what I've heard, if United does go belly up, ACA will park all the Jetstreams and furlough approx. 500 immediately. It could be a very long ride.

 

[C-5 MEM]

I got home from Kuwait yesterday when the Chief Pilot called me about my military status. I asked him about whats going on and he said like everyone else that furloughed pilots are getting the info. Also the same as Bluto statements about 500 pilots let go if they ground the J41.
If you are in the pool hang in there. It could be a long wait.
If you have any questions PM me and I can answer any of your questions. I am home for 6 days before heading back over, but I have access to the internet to check my messages so if I don't get back to you it might take a few days.


Terry V.
CRJ/FO
ACA

 

[sejac]

The guys from pilot recrutiment do seem like great people. I get an email from them about once every 2 months talking about the company and class dates. I am suprised they have not sent a new one since the furloughs. I guess they are trying to figure out what is going on as well. I have heard a couple of people saying they might pick up Jet Blue and/or a couple of other code shares. It seem like a great company and I am sure that they are working on a plan. Good luck to everyone in the pool and hope to see you there before too long.

 

[embraerdriver]

things that make you go hhmmmmm...

 

[beats working]

Assuming United stays alive, it looks like there will probably not be another wave of furloughs (beyond the 2 already announced). While we are a bit pilot heavy still, any further furloughs will requre a bump&flush which would be too costly with all of the required re-training.

 

[DaveyDave]

Park 41's and furlough 500 pilots...

Just to clarify, when you're saying they would park the J41's and immediately furlough 500 folks... you're not talking about 500 J41 pilots, right? Just the 500 lowest seniority folks, regardless of what equipment they're on? Just wanted to make sure the seniority system still works.

Dave

 

[C-5 MEM]

Furloughed pilots go in senority.

 

[Looking4Traffic]

Thanks . . .

C141FE:

I assume from your e-mails that you are in Kuwait for our current military operation. That being the case, I just wanted to say "thanks."

Thanks for taking time away from your civilian life, putting yourself in harms way to protect our freedoms.

I know that everyone has a different opinion about how involved we should be in Iraq but that doesn't matter when you hear about a "brother" doing his part; doing his duty.

I have a lot of respect for what your doing. Stay safe, keep the blue side up and I hope that we're all in 'civies' again real soon.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Poolies:

Stay current and keep flying. Study hard and consider other opportunites as they present themselves to further your careers.

If United survives, there will be virtually no more growth at ACA on the United side. For various reasons too numerous to mention ACA has essentially shot themselves in the foot in that area (pi$$ing off UAL in court is just one of them). So that means that those pilots on furlough now probably won't get a call back for 1 to 1.5 yrs. Hence those of you in the pool, I'd bet you'd be looking at close to 2 yrs. min.

If UAL were to liquidate, the entire J41 fleet would get parked virtually immediately. That would require an additional 400+ furloughs for a total of 500 furloughed pilots. Those of us on furlough now could not expect to be recalled for 2 yrs or more. That means those of you in the pool, 2.5 to 3 yrs before getting a call. It is unlikely that another code-share will happen. The one airline that ACA is best positioned to code-share with is AA and they are about to seek chap. 11 protection. So don't hold your breath there. Others have been spoken to (Jet Blue for example) but it will be a very cold day you know where before that will become a remotely realistic option. Don't even talk about ACA going independent...you'll never see the bottom of the pool in the next 3 yrs. if that happens.

ACA is in tough shape right now. They still have about 200 extra pilots on the payroll right now. The reason that they aren't being furloughed is that since the union contract reqires furloughs in reverse order of senority, people would get furloughed from the wrong aircraft. This would require ACA to move pilots to positions they needed filled and would require retraining at an estimated cost of $15 million. This is your "bump and flush" furlough. The $15 mil. cost is the only thing keeping those pilots from being furloughed right now. This will show you how overstaffed ACA really is.

There is little doubt that ACA as a company will make it through all this, but exactly in what form no one is sure. Again the best scenario (UAL surviving) has the current furloughies back in 1 yr. to 1.5 yrs. and then poolies after that.

Don't mean to be so "doom and gloom", just giving you the same straight honesty that Tom Moore is giving the employees in the meetings he is having with them. That is where all of this info has come from. Straight from the horses mouth, no conjecture, no second-hand info. The management people are taking 10%+ pay cuts, incentive programs are being stopped and hell, ACA may even stop serving cheeze-snacks on the planes!

Overall, it just "plane" stinks.

Hope this answers some of the poolies questions......

keep flying and keep your knowledge current. I know I plan on it.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Poolies:
If United survives, there will be virtually no more growth at ACA on the United side. For various reasons too numerous to mention ACA has essentially shot themselves in the foot in that area (pi$$ing off UAL in court is just one of them).

Does UAL make decisions based on being or not being "pissed off"? It may have more to do with the competition from other carriers than who is or is not pissed off.

 

[CRJ puppy]

As I stated, there are too many reasons to enumerate. I just listed the court debacle as one (tongue-in-cheek) example that people would be familiar with.

YES, crossing paths (so to speak) with a company can get you "black-listed" as it were so you are not say even asked to put in a bid on extra flying, etc.

Welcome to the wonderful world of business. Altruism unfortunately is not part of business 101!

We'll give you a different example to chew on: ACA's contract w/UAL says that ACA must take delivery of all 121 ordered CRJ's by April 2004 in order to have the "right" to operate them on UAL routes. Since ACA has stopped taking delivery of CRJ's (since it doesn't want to use up its existing cash reserves) it would be virtually impossible to take delivery of the remaining 52 CRJ's and get them on-line in the time frame remaining. Thus negating the contract.

Again, this post was for straight info for the poolies. You don't have to like the info, but please do not question that with which you have no first-hand knowledge.

That's enough "flame" material for now.

Bye bye.

 

[WhiteCloud]

We'll give you a different example to chew on: ACA's contract w/UAL says that ACA must take delivery of all 121 ordered CRJ's by April 2004 in order to have the "right" to operate them on UAL routes. Since ACA has stopped taking delivery of CRJ's (since it doesn't want to use up its existing cash reserves) it would be virtually impossible to take delivery of the remaining 52 CRJ's and get them on-line in the time frame remaining. Thus negating the contract.

Again, this post was for straight info for the poolies. You don't have to like the info, but please do not question that with which you have no first-hand knowledge.

Gee CRJ...did I hit a button? The CRJ order and UAL vs. ACA issue is public knowledge and it's totally understandable that ACA needs to know where they stand before getting overextended (more?). UAL and their attorneys would do the same thing if the situation were reversed. Are you saying that "pissed" them off enough to go on some kind of vendetta to stop dealing with ACA?

 

[rptrain]

The idea of UAL getting "pissed" at a company is not a new one. Ever wonder why they decided to go with Airbus 319/320s instead of 737NGs? Remember the sioux city dc-10 accident? UAL viewed that uncontained engine failure as GE's fault, and the resulting rift between the companies influenced their future purchases. Even if UAL were somehow swayed by the superiority of the Airbuses, why would they order them with V2500 engines instead of CFM56s? Because they're "pissed" at GE, which we know is a partner in the CFM consortium. Wouldn't it make sense to maintain commonality in their fleet, at least in engines if not airframes? That's UAL decision making for you.

However, after all these years it's UAL that's in trouble, not GE.

 

[walkthasky]

and...

Lets not forget that Mesa pissed off UAL as well, and we all know whats going on with them now. You never know. If something else is available I'd grab it. Hell, im even looking at ATC

 

[Flex 20]

I wasn't there but...

...I sincerely doubt Tom Moore said a word about UAL being pissed at ACA for the motion on the contract affirmation. It's business and ACA did not try to force UAL into paying affirmed rates, we simply wanted to know. Air Wisc filed the exact same motion to be heard sometime soon. That leaves SkyWest as the only major CRJ carrier that is still in UAL's good graces. Shoot, I better get them a resume.

It's true that without contract concessions (both with UAL and our pilot group) ACA will have a hard time growing under any banner. However, I believe our pilot group will agree to concessions (we need to compete with the bottom dwellers unfortunately) and UAL's recovery plan, when unveiled, will include more RJ routes. I expect ACA to get it's share of those.

Maybe it's rationalization since I'm getting furloughed next week, but I tend to think the company will grow again within 1-2 years (or so). ACA, like all other CRJ operators, has to grow or it will die. An aging fleet, and aging pilot group, etc. all cost more and more money.

If UAL pulls through in any form, ACA, Air Wisc, and SkyWest will all benefit IMHO.

 

[copilot421]

i was told either by the "road show" or my mgr. that ual owes aca about 6 million dollars. are those figures still accurate??

i believe that the national atc site today projected that it will be hiring about 1,000 controllers per year over the next 3 years. good money, government job. if you already have a 4 year degree then i believe you can attend beaver co comm college for 3 semesters that will bring you up to speed be be a controller.

 

[acaTerry]

Any of you who go to ATC.....go to JFK so SOMEONE knows how to seperate us prop trash from the 747's!!!!!
"Blue Ridge 627, 210 to the marker. Traffic is a heavy 747 3, no 4 miles at the marker, he's slowing down. Contact the tower, see ya byebye"

 

[climbhappy]

to the courageous pilots of gulf warII

to C141FE an any others serving our country....

THANKS FOR YOUR SACRIFICE
TO PROTECT OUR WAY OF LIFE
MAY YOUR SEPARATION FROM FAMILY BE SHORT

AND THE QUICKER YA'LL KICK THE ASS OF HUSSEIN AND
HIS ROGUE OF THIEVES ALL THE WAY TO HELL

THEN THE QUICKER OUR INDUSTRY WILL GET BACK TO DAYS OF THE MID TO LATE90'S

AND WE CAN SIT BACK RELAX AND ENJOY THE FLIGHT

GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU!