ACA and DL are done........

[MedFlyer]

Not that we didn't see it coming, but here it is officially. Still no details on exactly what will happen, but the relationship will end.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040406/dctu051_1.html

One interesting quote:

"While the obligations on these aircraft leases would be assigned to Delta, ACA may not be able to extinguish its obligations under the leases unless Delta or its assignee meet certain financial conditions at the time Delta becomes obligated to assume the leases. Delta currently does not meet those financial conditions."

Looks like ACA might still get screwed in this deal......

 

[jobear]

"Under the terms of ACA's Delta Connection Agreement, if Delta terminates without cause, ACA has the right during the 180-day notification period to require Delta to assume the leases on some or all of the 30 328JET aircraft used in the company's Delta Connection operation. While the obligations on these aircraft leases would be assigned to Delta, ACA may not be able to extinguish its obligations under the leases unless Delta or its assignee meet certain financial conditions at the time Delta becomes obligated to assume the leases. Delta currently does not meet those financial conditions."

I believe DAL has significant cause ie. more than fifty seats on a DCI carrier.
General Lee does that sound right

Jobear

 

[tbkane]

Delta has a scope clause that limits use of jets with more than 50 seats to a total 56 and ASA and Comair have that total number of 70 seats on property. The regional carriers can add as many less than 50 seat airplanes up to a total of 49% of total flying. That total has not been met.

 

[General Lee]

Interesting.....Could ACA have to keep the Dojos and not fly them for anyone? That would suck. They will fly them for 6 more months (180 days), right? Then what?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Even more interesting. Delta is obligated under the leasing provisions, but does not have the credit to actually take over the leases.

It is like your rich uncle co-siging on your car loan, but now the rich uncle cannot qualify for the loan himself....

What a mess. The potential up side is that leassors will probably look to the party with the ability to pay the obligation ( ACA ) first.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta has a scope clause that limits use of jets with more than 50 seats to a total 56 and ASA and Comair have that total number of 70 seats on property. The regional carriers can add as many less than 50 seat airplanes up to a total of 49% of total flying. That total has not been met.

A slight correction. The scope limit is currently 44%, but could go as high as 49% if certain financial conditions exist.

And yes, the 40 aircraft order again takes Delta to within a hair of being over the limit. The actual number of airplanes suggests Delta is aiming over the limit, but this has been explained away as the scope limit controlling block hours - nothing said Connection could not order a spare, or three.

 

[chperplt]

When Comair or ASA get new airplanes, who signes the leases? Does DAL sign the papers for them or does Comair and ASA?

 

[vc10]

The DoJets are likely going to Skyway (in MKE). They put out a press release that they're in discussions with Delta over this.

Makes sense---they're the only other operator of these things in the US. There would be much less startup cost for them to fly them than for Comair.

So, ACA guys, would you go to Skyway if you had recall rights?

There are going to be fewer jobs at ACA before there are more. Both the J-41s and the DoJets are going, well before enough Airbuses show up to soak up the unemployed pilots.

 

[jobear]

A slight correction. The scope limit is currently 44%, but could go as high as 49% if certain financial conditions exist.

And yes, the 40 aircraft order again takes Delta to within a hair of being over the limit. The actual number of airplanes suggests Delta is aiming over the limit, but this has been explained away as the scope limit controlling block hours - nothing said Connection could not order a spare, or three.

That's if DAL doesn't sell the A/C or some of them to whoever operates them

Jobear

 

[~~~^~~~]

When Comair or ASA get new airplanes, who signes the leases? Does DAL sign the papers for them or does Comair and ASA?

I believe they are leased to "Delta Connection, Inc.," but have never seen the documents. They are insured under Delta's risk management program. Usually the leasee's and loss payees are the similar.

But then, after doing a little research:

N701EV is Assigned


Assigned/Registered Aircraft

Aircraft Description

Serial Number 10020 Type Registration Corporation
Manufacturer Name BOMBARDIER INC Certificate Issue Date 01/25/2002
Model CL-600-2C10 Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-Jet
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 52254275
MFR Year 2002 Fractional Owner NO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Registered Owner

Name ATLANTIC SOUTHEAST AIRLINES INC
Street 100 HARTSFIELD CENTRE PKWY
STE 800
City ATLANTA State GEORGIA Zip Code 30354-1356
County FULTON
Country UNITED STATES

 

[General Lee]

So Fins, who pays the insurance on those aircraft? Does DCI? Or Delta?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

General :

Who the heck knows? If the checks cash, they must be from ASA.

No really, Delta pays the premiums. I think ASA pays Delta their portion of the expense, but nobody outside Delta knows for sure.

Don't you find it incredible that ALPA decided there was no "operational integration" between our carriers? Again, it was your MEC at work.

 

[FL000]

Fins,

I thought it was less about "operational integration" and more about expected career earnings/equipment flown when it comes to merging seniority lists. Certainly we can't claim parity on the latter.

 

[anon]

Jumpseat?

Does this also mean that ACA pilots will not have access to DAL/DCI cockpit jumpseats in 180 days?

They could still ride in the back, loads permitting, I'm sure.

 

[Flyforyou]

I'm assuming that as long as someone is flying as a DCI pilot, then they would be in the computer to verify employment.

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

So, if Delta pays for the premiums--then DCI could really show a profit without paying for much..........get my point yet?

I have always thought that we should all have one list. I never said otherwise. The only thing that bothered me and the other 10,200 people on the list (pre-9-11) was the "date of hire" stuff we kept hearing. I was always for one list.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[j41driver]

What a mess. The potential up side is that leassors will probably look to the party with the ability to pay the obligation ( ACA ) first.

Upside for who??

 

[FDJ2]

Don't you find it incredible that ALPA decided there was no "operational integration" between our carriers?

Having DAL pay many of the ASA bills does not equate to operational integration. If on the other hand DAL and ASA shared the same headquarters, dispatchers, aircraft, maintenance etc. you might have more of an argument.

 

[WhiteCloud]

It's really Delta that has the problem. It's their contract with their pilots that limits ACA. Delta and ACA have no agreemtent that limits ACA's operations. Delta has to come to ACA to break the contract because they are not able to continue it.

 

[skydiverdriver]

There you go again, FDJ2. One question for you, when Western was integrated, did they share the same dispatch, headquarters, or any of the other things you mentioned? None of that matters, and you know it. We will win this, in spite of your kind, and to your benefit. You'lle see.