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Absolutely Furious !!!!!

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ReformAlpa

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Posts
19
Alpa Pilots: Read This Post !!!

Below you will find an exerpt from the rejected TA of the ALPA professional and administrative office staff. Please read through it, but be careful...if you are a dues-paying ALPA member it will make your blood boil.

My personal 2 favorite parts are:

1. "A continuation of reimbursement of FICA taxes for up to $4550/year which provides 100% reimbursement to every Unit 2 employee making under $59,000/year. This is a traditional benefit for ALPA employees , but a rarity elsewhere."

TRANSLATION: OUR UNION DUES ARE BEING USED TO PAY SOME SECRETARY'S OR OFFICE CLERK'S INCOME TAX.

2. "Unit 2 employees will continue a 35-hour work-week"

TRANSLATION: OUR UNION DUES ARE BEING UTILIZED NOT TO HELP FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS, TO ADD TO THE QUALITY OF OUR LIVES, BUT RATHER TO SUBSIDIZE THE GRAVY JOB AND LIFESTYLE OF OUR OFFICE STAFF.

This is from the TA which the office-staff at ALPA HQ Rejected...it wasn't good enough for them. I am absolutely livid, and you should be too.

The election for a new ALPA president is being held this October in Las Vegas. We are in the process of putting together a campaign for a candidate who will run against Duane Woerth. More details will come out as the date of the election come closer...please be patient as there is a lot of work to be done. This is a watershed moment for ALPA and our livelyhoods and we don't want to come out ill-prepared.

Fly safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsaLossPaywAlpa
Contents of the Rejected Unit 2 Agreement

ALPA has been informed by the leaders of the Union of ALPA Professional and Administrative Employees, Unit 2, that their members are on strike effective 12 noon May 12, 2006. As reported earlier, ALPA and Unit 2 (which represents the union’s clerical and administrative employees) have been negotiating with a goal of reaching a consensual agreement on the terms of their collective bargaining agreement.

Earlier this week, ALPA and Unit 2 completed a tentative agreement that contained merit salary increases, delayed health care cost increases, and improved several other areas of the contract. Unit 2 members have rejected that TA. While there are no updates on talks with Unit 2 negotiators, a number of pilots have enquired about details of the tentative agreement they have rejected. Here is a brief summary of the details of the rejected agreement.

Compensation
The rejected TA stretched to the limit the Association’s ability to provide salary increases that do not cause costs to grow faster than revenue. ALPA pilots at major airlines – including US Airways, Delta, Northwest and United – have taken pay cuts of as much as 40% or more, and have signed long-term contracts with minimal raises. ALPA dues revenue is less than it was when both the current Unit 2 and Unit 1 contracts were signed, and the dues outlook looks worse. The average contractual raises for pilots at seven of our largest airline - US Airways, Alaska, America West, Continental, Delta, Northwest and United – that comprise nearly two-thirds of ALPA’s dues revenue will be less than 1.5% over the next three years.

The rejected TA provided Unit 2 employees a merit increase of up 3.5% each year for the duration of the 3 year agreement, up from the 3% pay raise effective for the last year of the expired contract. As a comparison, the Economic Research Institute projects that pay raises for administrative positions will grow at a rate less than the 3.75% forecasted average for all U.S. workers. Additionally, while most US workers are required to work 40-hour work weeks, Unit 2 employees have, and will continue to have, a 35-hour work week.

The TA also provided for the continuation of a reimbursement of FICA taxes of up to $4,550 per year, which provides 100% reimbursement to every Unit 2 employee making under $59,000 per year. This is a traditional benefit for ALPA employees, but a rarity elsewhere.

Health Care
Despite significant and continued increases in health care costs, ALPA does not require monthly premium contributions from employees for individual or family coverage. In 2005, only 17% of U.S. employers paid 100% of workers’ individual premiums for single employees, and only 6% of U.S. employers paid 100% of premiums for families. The TA would have continued the benefit of not requiring monthly premium contributions.

Unit 2 employees have not experienced an increase to their deductibles or co-insurance limits since May of 2003, and would have continued to enjoy the same until Jan. 1, 2008. The rejected TA provided for a $75 increase in in-network deductibles and co-insurance limits and a $150 increase in out-of-network deductibles and co-insurance limits, as well as higher co-pays for ER and hospital visits.

The TA also included a reduction in the reimbursement level of out-of-network medical expenses, from 80/20% to 70/30%. While this may result in a slight increase in out-of-pocket expenses for Unit 2 employees, the corresponding co-insurance limits would have continued to limit their overall exposure. Again, these changes would not have gone into effect until Jan. 1, 2008.

Retiree Health
ALPA provides a rich Retiree Health Plan for employees who reach age 56 with 18 years of service. Unit 2 members who retired before November 2003 were paying $15 -$30 per month per person over the 2000 – 2003 Unit 2 contract. The rejected TA provided that monthly premiums remain unchanged until July 2008, when they would have increased to $30 - $50 per month per person. There was also to be a modest increase to deductibles and co-insurance limits.

Unit 2 members who retired after November 2003 and are over 65 years of age were required to elect Medicare Part B and pay 10% of the calculated premium with a cap of $60 per person on a monthly basis. The TA provides for an increased cap of $75, effective January 1, 2008. Unit 2 members who retired after November 2003 and are under 65 years of age were required to pay 20% of the calculated premium with a cap of $120 per person on a monthly basis. The TA provides for an increased cap of $150, effective Jan. 1, 2008. There will also be a modest increase to deductibles and co-insurance limits for post-2003 retirees at that time.
 
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$59,000 for a secretary? That's more than I made last year as an 8 year captain at Mesaba. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Duane must go.

-Spartacus
It's time for a revolt.
 
XJ-spartacus said:
$59,000 for a secretary? That's more than I made last year as an 8 year captain at Mesaba. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Duane must go.

-Spartacus
It's time for a revolt.


In case you didn't notice Duane is refusing to pay these rates. Isn't that what you want him to do?
 
Uh, lead by example?

DoinTime said:
In case you didn't notice Duane is refusing to pay these rates. Isn't that what you want him to do?

How bout taking a HUGE F'ING PAYCUT?

That a-hole gives himself a cool 1/2 million out of the ALPA till each year. Many, many, many of his ALPA cronies take 1/4 million per year.

Meanwhile, under their "leadership", ALPA pilots have been taking ENORMOUS paycuts . . .and I didn't get the proposal to lower our dues . . . but I did get one bragging about ALPA's HUGE-BLOATED warchest.

Anyone who campaigns on going in an voluntarily taking at measely 10% paycut is WAY better than the bonehead in there now. . . .
 
XJ-spartacus said:
$59,000 for a secretary? That's more than I made last year as an 8 year captain at Mesaba. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Duane must go.

-Spartacus
It's time for a revolt.

No. If you read closely the FICA reimbursement is restricted to employees earning less than $59K per year. Sounds like the ALPA staffers need to come to grips with the fact that the revenue stream isn't what it used to be.
 
How bout taking a HUGE F'ING PAYCUT?


WOW...you should be in management. They need strong arm goons like you to beat down labor groups.
 
Dave Benjamin said:
No. If you read closely the FICA reimbursement is restricted to employees earning less than $59K per year. Sounds like the ALPA staffers need to come to grips with the fact that the revenue stream isn't what it used to be.

The way I read the TA, it states that it provides reimbursement of up to $4550/year to all ALPA employees...which just happens to cover 100% of all FICA taxes if they make 59k or less. If they make more, then they still get the $4550, just not any higher. That is how I read it....I may not be correct. Perhaps somebody could research that and post the results here.

In either case...who cares. Our union dues are still paying somebody else's income tax. This bears repeating, because it sounds so impossible that I can't stand it: OUR UNION DUES ARE PAYING THE INCOME TAX OF ALPA'S EMPLOYEES.

I get an ulcer everytime I think about it. The fact that we are even having this conversation is almost beyond belief, and it shows just how out-of-touch and bloated ALPA National really is.

Come the October elections, we are going to try to change things. Please be patient.

Fly safe.
 
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XJ-spartacus said:
$59,000 for a secretary? That's more than I made last year as an 8 year captain at Mesaba. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Duane must go.

-Spartacus
It's time for a revolt.

I'll second that. Duane must go!!! What a friggin joke.
 
RTFQ please . .

DoinTime said:
WOW...you should be in management. They need strong arm goons like you to beat down labor groups.

I'm talking about DW's SALARY FROM THE UNION

http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/unionOfficers.cfm?id=275535

(RE: OUR DUES)

I couldn't give a rats how much he takes from NWA. Let him negotiate a billion dollar pay rate and put NWA under for all I care. But when it comes out of my pocket, and produces a demonstrably crappy contract that gets worse and worse over time, well . . . thanks, but no thanks.

You think he's doing a good job? Well, lets increase our dues by another 1% so he can take home 2 million instead. Frankly, his job is to produce results, not excuses, and I for one AM NOT IMPRESSED.

How he's any different than a scumbag CEO who keeps paying himself a huge salary and bonuses while the ship is sinking under his "leadership" while simultaneously demanding the same, if not more, from his underlings is a mystery to me.

If this were a direct vote, instead of via MEC voting blocks, this guy would've been bounced along time ago.


(In my very, very, very humble opinion.)
 
FICA is Social Security, not income tax.
 
Somebody please send an E-mail to Duane with the memory Items and limitations. Lets send him back to live under the TA they negotiated.

REVOLUTION DAMN IT
 
I'm talking about DW's SALARY FROM THE UNION

Duane Woerth
President
Air Line Pilots

2005 Salary Breakdown

$ 10,536 Administrative (3%)
$ 0 Contributions (0%)
$ 340,650 General Overhead (97%)
$ 0 Political (0%)
$ 0 Representational (0%)
$ 351,186 Total Earnings

Historical Salary Information
Year Salary % Raise Title
2005 $ 351,186 -15.4% PRESIDENT
2004 $ 415,026 -2.0% PRESIDENT
2002 $ 423,705 -3.5% PRESIDENT
2001 $ 439,296 40.2% PRESIDENT
2000 $ 313,392 — PRESIDENT

The president of ALPA is paid off of a formula that is based on the top captain salaries around the industry. Notice Duane has been taking personal pay cuts since 2002 and will continue to take another big cut in 2006. How much do you think the president of a high power lobbying organization (thats all ALPA national is) should get paid anyway? I can assure you that Duane is underpaid based on the salaries of people that serve in his capacity.

Many of the other big dollar people on that list are very experienced attorneys that reside in the Washington, DC area. These are also competitive wages for people that work in their capacity.
 
Dave Benjamin said:
Sounds like the ALPA staffers need to come to grips with the fact that the revenue stream isn't what it used to be.

No kidding. I espeically liked the fact that they pay no medical premiums. FREE MEDICAL COVERAGE. Jeez. Forget the moon, they're going for pluto...

The dues are going down, which means pilots are making less money. And they want MORE!?!? WTF
 
DoinTime said:
The president of ALPA is paid off of a formula that is based on the top captain salaries around the industry. Notice Duane has been taking personal pay cuts since 2002 and will continue to take another big cut in 2006. How much do you think the president of a high power lobbying organization (thats all ALPA national is) should get paid anyway? I can assure you that Duane is underpaid based on the salaries of people that serve in his capacity.

Many of the other big dollar people on that list are very experienced attorneys that reside in the Washington, DC area. These are also competitive wages for people that work in their capacity.

Sorry...logic and understanding don't work on flightinfo....

First of all, pilots have no clue that ALPA is a political organization. PERIOD!

They think the ALPA Prez is sort of a big chief of the MECs..... Pilots think DW gets out of bed (or should) to make thier life better....

In actuality the ALPA president's job is to deal with the heavy hitters and players of Wash DC. Again, the avg. line pilot doesn't even have clue that there is value in dealing with these DC players...

Finally in typical ignorance.... the avg pilot has to explain his own misery by breaking others down to make himself feel better.... You know the type... The one that is insecure and unsure... he insults others to bring them down to his level....

What is really pathetic is pilots who insult and scoff the only organization whose agenda is Air Line Pilots. Ignorant pilots who like to dump where they eat...

Whining about ALPA is just that... an emotional response to a lack of understadning...
 
wheelsup said:
No kidding. I espeically liked the fact that they pay no medical premiums. FREE MEDICAL COVERAGE. Jeez. Forget the moon, they're going for pluto...

The dues are going down, which means pilots are making less money. And they want MORE!?!? WTF

Do you want to have to justify what you are able to negotiate fairly?

How would you like your passengers to board the jet and scoff at you for making what they think is rediculous?
 
atrdriver said:
FICA is Social Security, not income tax.

Does that really matter, it is still a tax that comes out of my paycheck, and the dues that come out of MY paycheck pay THEIR taxes. I'm calling BS on this one
 
gator_hater said:
Does that really matter, it is still a tax that comes out of my paycheck, and the dues that come out of MY paycheck pay THEIR taxes. I'm calling BS on this one

What does it matter how they describe this compensation? Its 7.2% of their wage up to $4550 annually. This is no different from any pilot work rule that provides income for whatever justification.

It all comes down to the bottom line and that's all that matters. The widespread ignorance of this simple concept I've seen on this board is probably one of the reasons for declining pilot salaries in this country. You guys are just being plain stupid.
 
gator_hater said:
Does that really matter, it is still a tax that comes out of my paycheck, and the dues that come out of MY paycheck pay THEIR taxes. I'm calling BS on this one

Why on earth do you begrudge them something that they negotiated for themselves? Are you telling me that you wouldn't negotiate the same thing if you could? Same thing with the medical benefits. If they are able to negotiate it more power to them. ALPA can't function without a support staff, and if they are able to negotiate a better benefit package than we can then that's really our problem. Not for their being able to, but for our not being able to.
 
Hey, cut that out! This is flightinfo, for Christ's sake!

Thanks for the well reasoned, articulate, non-inflamatory response! I will conceed you have a point!

However, there are some issues you simply cannot remove the emotional impact from. For example, when the CEO of EXON-MOBIL gets a $400 million dollar retirement package during the middle of all-time gas high prices, NO rational argument justifiying an argueably fair reward for 20 years of service and industry turnaround is going to go over with a frustrated public.

Same here. When DW pulls down a cool 1/2 million, as ALPA pilots benifits, salaries, and pensions are raped, he's gonna catch hell.



DoinTime said:
The president of ALPA is paid off of a formula that is based on the top captain salaries around the industry. Notice Duane has been taking personal pay cuts since 2002 and will continue to take another big cut in 2006. How much do you think the president of a high power lobbying organization (thats all ALPA national is) should get paid anyway? I can assure you that Duane is underpaid based on the salaries of people that serve in his capacity.

Many of the other big dollar people on that list are very experienced attorneys that reside in the Washington, DC area. These are also competitive wages for people that work in their capacity.
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
Do you want to have to justify what you are able to negotiate fairly?

How would you like your passengers to board the jet and scoff at you for making what they think is rediculous?

They can scoff all they want - but unless they ALSO fly an aircraft they have no right to bitch. They would be comparing apples to oranges. And in which case I'm making less, unless they also fly for a regional, so it's a moot point.

You can compare secretary salary $X (and benefits) to secretary salary $Y (and benefits). See where I'm going? $60k sounds like a lot for a secretary to make, maybe it's not. I doubt many come close to that, especially with the benefits ALPA offers.
 
They can scoff all they want - but unless they ALSO fly an aircraft they have no right to bitch. They would be comparing apples to oranges. And in which case I'm making less, unless they also fly for a regional, so it's a moot point.

Yes, you are making less than a secretary at ALPA but that doesn't change the fact that you accept making what you make and continue to work regardless of your perception of how underpaid you are. If pilots weren't such whores (myself included) pilot salaries would skyrocket at the regional level.
 
wheelsup said:
They can scoff all they want - but unless they ALSO fly an aircraft they have no right to bitch. They would be comparing apples to oranges. And in which case I'm making less, unless they also fly for a regional, so it's a moot point.

You can compare secretary salary $X (and benefits) to secretary salary $Y (and benefits). See where I'm going? $60k sounds like a lot for a secretary to make, maybe it's not. I doubt many come close to that, especially with the benefits ALPA offers.

So ALPA secretaries have to take a pay cut so you can feel better.......
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
So ALPA secretaries have to take a pay cut so you can feel better.......

Where did you get that from? If the average salary of a secretary was $60k then I'd have no problem with it.

My beef is that these employees received pay much higher than the average, benefits better than most, etc. and STILL want to hang ALPA out to dry.

When the airlines' collective income dropped, pilots, CSR's, Ramp Rats, etc. all took massive pay cuts. When ALPA dues drop, why shouldn't ALPA employees take a pay cut? Instead they are demanding rasies on top of their already high income.
 
wheelsup said:
Where did you get that from? If the average salary of a secretary was $60k then I'd have no problem with it..

Please provide a pay scale analysis for union/association secretaries and the like for the Northern Virginia/DC area.

wheelsup said:
My beef is that these employees received pay much higher than the average, benefits better than most, etc. and STILL want to hang ALPA out to dry..

Again, YOU say they are paid too much. Who are you to adequately know what pay scales should be?

Are they hanging out ALPA to dry? Or are they using the same negotiating tactics that we do? You can't have it both ways. Either you support collective bargaining or you don't.....

wheelsup said:
When the airlines' collective income dropped, pilots, CSR's, Ramp Rats, etc. all took massive pay cuts. When ALPA dues drop, why shouldn't ALPA employees take a pay cut? Instead they are demanding rasies on top of their already high income.

How do you know they haven't taken a cut? Do you know why because you didn't read it on Flightinfo or hear it from the crewroom expert?

Don't you have a responsibility to become fully educated on the issue before you make your assumptions?

Or does it not matter because this is flightinfo and you can spew misinformation without consequence....? You feel comfortable spreading angst and cynisism about ALPA so more and more pilots hate the only organization whose agenda is Air Line Pilots...

A hate based on misinfomration, lies, assumptions and ignorance.

Shameful....
 
REZ- You need to get out from under Duane's desk and breath some fresh air. You can charge the 02 back to your MEC at twice the normal rate. Your buddies in accounting and the secretaries will go along with the BS accounting as in the past. Keep the BS coming from DC Rez you need to justify that blotated compensation. In fact tell a few more ALPA STOOGES to post away, it assures the peons that ALPA National and the full time babblers are doing something besides eating and crawling around on Duane's office floor.
 
ReformAlpa said:
Come the October elections, we are going to try to change things. Please be patient.

Fly safe.

Who's we?
 
XJ-spartacus said:
$59,000 for a secretary? That's more than I made last year as an 8 year captain at Mesaba. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Duane must go.

-Spartacus
It's time for a revolt.

The ALPA paid sectretary in our MEC office makes a measly 28,800 a year....they want them to take anouthr 4 year wage freeze(would make 8 years), no quality of life improvements, about 110% increase in insurance premiums, detuctables are going up quite a bit....I cant say I blame them at all. Plus the Manager who oversees all of UNit 2 makes about 400K a year and has a really ********************ty attitude, they would have taken the TA if this guy would have just kept his mouth shut!
 
time to impeach those SOBs. ALPO is a bunch of cowards for not simply telling the employees their demands are outlandish and ridiculous. I hope they dont reach an agreement though. LET ALPO BURN BABY BURN. Time to start laughing as the house crumbles.
 
I can admit when I make a mistake D'Angelo. I thought you might have something intelligent to say. I was wrong.
 

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