Abex

[GoABX]

<<ASTAR isn't trying to screw ABX pilots out of anything>>

There is a huge difference between 'defending' your work and attempting to 'steal' the job of another union brother. ALPA's claim is they want all of their old work, plus all of our's too. (The sad part is they admitted in court they'd try to screww the other union even if they too were ALPA.)

After the merger announcement, the 1224 President said any integration of the pilots would be "fair and equitable", no theft by taking. In other words we are (were?) going to act like gentlemen. Astar MEC's escalation indicates they want to play winner take all. With this aggression, should the ABX Air pilots take fair & equitable off the table and do unto others as they are trying to do to you?

The new Teamster Scope Clause is the best in the industry and is air tight with the exception of 2 or 3 holes you could drive a MAC truck through. True your contract has paragraphs labelled Scope and Successorship. But your scope sucks. That's not a personal attack...just don't bet your mortgage on your '98 language.

ABX's intervention/argument (not 1224's) in the ALPA vs. DHL suit has no legs at all. It is a longshot. Eventually it will get kicked back to the judge to rule on whether arbitration is required. Our union will then be forced to attack your case to defend our jobs....we have been put in a sh!tty position. Thanks, we are supposed to be on the same team.

If you win, you can't possibly accept the remedy you have requested. (You don't have the lift.) So it will 1) force a merger of airlines or 2) our flights will slowly be shifted to you and eventually 800 pilots will be furloughed. BUT if you should lose this big bet your leadership is so willing to make, then a third option becomes open: 3) shifting your work to us and they pull the same cr@p on you that they did to your drivers.

As an objective person ask yourself WHY is ALPA swinging for the fence on this one? Believe it or not ALPA doesn't give a sh!t about you personally. They only care about their dues revenue. With furloughs, pay cuts, affiliation attrition they have taken it on the chin. Now they are assuming they have already lost any future Teamster vs. ALPA election by the score of 800 to 500. (BTW Bad assumption). So ALPA feels like they have nothing to lose and if they win they go from losing 500 dues payers to gaining 800 dues payers.

Despite this kick in the balls, the ABX pilots are generally positive and continue to want cooperate with the Astar pilots to grow, upgrade, kick purple&brown a$$, and get rich. But gosh boys, you are really making it hard to sit in a circle and 'play guitar.'

 

[rudderdog]

To AV8OR

Don't try to hide behind your scope clause.....you are trying to screw the ABX pilots out flying their company is bringing to the table. If it makes you feel better about taking peoples jobs, then go ahead, blame it on the contract.

Also, Abexpilot is correct, CAT II is critical and cost effective to dispatch reliablilty. Name three major airlines that are giving up their CAT II and going to CAT I.



To Meat n the Seat

Sorry, but with each pilot group already entrenched in their corners (and worlds apart), they will not eventually "come together". There are many examples of this in the airline industry.


To GoABX

I agree, ALPA is generally only interested in dues and will screw anyone to get them.


To all ABX pilots.....I hope you have a clear definition of what "fair and equitable" means to you. The TWA pilots supposedly got a "fair and equitable" integration. They got exactly what AV8OR wants to do to you. It's all relative.

 

[AV8OR]

GoABX, et al,

I'm not trying to hide behind anything. A contract scope clause is just that, and if you don't like it, that is your problem. If you kick our ass in court, then it'll be my problem, pure and simple.

My only point was that your annimosity is misplaced. I'm telling you, John Fellows doesn't care about our scope or your scope. You will either understand that now or later.

As for us "stealing" your work...dude you and I both know that ABX is flying DHL labeled stuff and ASTAR is flying Airborne labeled stuff. How can we steal "your" flying when there is no more Airborne? It is all DHL, and acording to our contract all DHLWE freight is supposed to be flown by DHL/ASTAR pilots. The difference between this and AA TWA is night and day. You saying we are stealing your flying would be like if AA had purchased TWA gates at STL and TWA pilots claimed that APA pilots stole their flying. I mean you are free to believe whatever you want but we are just gonna have to disagree on that one man.

Last, I can guarantee that if the two airlines become one, the majority of the ASTAR pilots want a fair merger. As a matter of fact our MEC and the pilots continually make a distinction on the point that it is ABX management that is bringing the suit not the pilots.

Look, we can go round and round playing the my scope clause is bigger than your scope clause game but, because DHLWE wouldn't let our CEO buy ABX, that is going to be decided in court now. I just thought that you would want to get your facts straight regarding our operating cost and performance while you attack the character of the ASTAR pilot group in public.

I don't know how long you've been dealing with or even paying attention to how John F. or DHLWE or DPWN does biz, but I assure you those of us at ASTAR know who the culprit is in this fiasco, and we are not blaming yall.

I'm done, I'll let the record speak for itself from here on in.

 

[rudderdog]

Just because you THINK you have a right to all of the flying, due to your unnegotiable scope clause, doesn't mean that you should demand it. Scope is for your protection. You deserve to be protected. Don't screw others out of a job to gain more than you deserve. Use your "iron clad" scope clause to protect yourself, don't try to tell me that all flying must be yours.

 

[GoABX]

To clarify:

1. My scope sucks and so does yours.

2. Airborne (grd) was bought and still exists, though this may not be true forever.

3. Pick up & delivery of DHL freight is now done by some Airborne drivers in some locations, but there has been no comingling of Astar and ABX airfreight (yet). Don't let the packaging fool you.

4. We want to carry the business we have serviced for the last 20+ years. That is our work. ALPA could have defended its scope without claiming our work, there is a big difference.

A. My theory is once the scope issue is resolved, many of the numerous feeder flights DHL has will be cancelled. All this contractor work will be put on ABX (Astar) trips and some of our ground product will actually start moving on the ground. Cancelling the feeders will save a huge amount of money and should not impact Astar/ABX mainline pilots. Hopefully, if the transatlantic MD-11/Dc-10 stuff shifts back over to Astar (where it belongs), then it might actually equate to growth for both airlines.
But just the removal of the driver overlap and contractor flying will mean a big boost to overall profitability.

B) Alpa and the Astar MEC have 2 different sets of interests. I pray that the MEC is driving the problem and won't allow themselves to be strong armed by Duane.

 

[AV8OR]

rudderdog,

"Use your "iron clad" scope clause to protect yourself, don't try to tell me that all flying must be yours."

We are protecting ourself.....from the whipsaw. I'm not trying to tell you anything. Our contract says what it says. You don't like it and neither does DHLWE. Congrats, you and John F. should get along well.