AA's Parker, he's REALLY against profit sharing. Article

[General Lee]

Ok, well I hope things go well over there. I really do. But I think GL is talking to airline guys. We're going to have to put together some serious calculus and methodologies to get our $ back. I'm talking multiple levels of outside the box thinking. So that's where the profit sharing thinking is coming from. May not work for you, but last time I checked, you guys didn't lose a pension and didn't get your wages rolled back 50%, is that right? Have you been in a BK type contract at all in the last decade?

You are correct. Trying to get back all the money at once wouldn't go with Wall St. So, getting short term contracts with fairly good raises each year, while at the same time increasing DC fund contributions and keeping and increasing profit sharing may be a good alternative. Apparently some on Wall St don't approve of a 25% raise in one year. Other creative ways of increasing overall compensation may need to be used.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Proving once again....like Smisek, Doogie Parker is in over his head.

There has to be better management out there than these clowns.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Ok, well I hope things go well over there. I really do. But I think GL is talking to airline guys. We're going to have to put together some serious calculus and methodologies to get our $ back. I'm talking multiple levels of outside the box thinking. So that's where the profit sharing thinking is coming from. May not work for you, but last time I checked, you guys didn't lose a pension and didn't get your wages rolled back 50%, is that right? Have you been in a BK type contract at all in the last decade?

A) We don't HAVE a pension. Never did.

B) Our wages are already about 50% of yours so we're already living in BK world.

Just pointng out to GL that absolutes and generalities (did you see what I did there? ) are not a great idea when dealing with widely divergent pilot groups.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Proving once again....like Smisek, Doogie Parker is in over his head.

Besides Herb Kelleher, what major airline CEO has been at the helm longer than Parker? He's been there longer than Crandall was CEO of American. Not defending, just sayin'...

Smisek? What's a Smisek?

 

[Flopgut]

A) We don't HAVE a pension. Never did.

B) Our wages are already about 50% of yours so we're already living in BK world.

Just pointng out to GL that absolutes and generalities (did you see what I did there? ) are not a great idea when dealing with widely divergent pilot groups.

You guys made a big jump about 7-8 years ago, and to my knowledge you haven't lost it. Don't compare your situation to what legacy airlines have gone thru. If you make 50% of what we do now (I think you're lowballing me) then accounting for our lost decade that's pbly about where you ought to expect to be. Your case is completely different. Legacy pilots had actual $ that was taken from us, and now our companies are making legit profits.

 

[Flopgut]

No, it's nothing like Age 65. If pilot groups wanted to buy an Age 60 retirement in contract negotiations they could, but obviously none have. For all the hew and cry, it would never pass.

Profit sharing is never going to be handed out as a "gimmee" to labor. They will get it in lieu of book rates and its an inconsistent bargain. If you "give nothing for it" then by definition it is worthless and certainly not worth gambling on an arbitration ruling that has all downside risk (sound familiar USAPA?).

Age 65 made sense in light of pilot longevity. Congress was not going to negotiate an early retirement for pilots by retaining an outdated law. Pilot unions undermined their credibility by opposing it on the basis of safety. The water has passed under that bridge and not worth arguing over. But to draw an equivalence between Age 65 and Profit Sharing is a non sequitur.

Clearly you have yourself barricaded wholly and completely "in the box". You're no more nimble and forward thinking than how you describe your company. Make PS an item that is as far from the contract as you possibly can. Like an HR thing, or a health care personal spending account. Maneuver it into something ALL employees get. That will work better in a Texas corporation than at the other two you've worked for.

Stop thinking the union has to "buy something" from mgt, or "play a card". That is old, failed, and foolish thinking. If you were clever enough to decide 65 was a winner for you, then act the same toward other issues/items that can help ALL your fellow pilots. You owe them that much. The pendulum is moving the other way, supply and demand are lining up in our favor, time to get big changes done that help entire groups.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Yeah, Flop you're right let's forget about negotiating. Let's just demand what we want and hold our breath till we get it.

Are you trying to get USAPA to represent you at United?

 

[Bringupthebird]

If you make 50% of what we do now (I think you're lowballing me) then accounting for our lost decade that's pbly about where you ought to expect to be. Your case is completely different.

You really should attribute Duane Woerthe's quotes rather than making them sound like your own ideas. Your "I Got Mine" and "You don't deserve..." attitude didn't go over any better 12 years ago at AWA.

 

[Flopgut]

Yeah, Flop you're right let's forget about negotiating. Let's just demand what we want and hold our breath till we get it.

Are you trying to get USAPA to represent you at United?

Have you read Art Of War? Mgts have, and they do what it says. We all should too.

 

[Flopgut]

B) Our wages are already about 50% of yours so we're already living in BK world.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You really should attribute Duane Woerthe's quotes rather than making them sound like your own ideas. Your "I Got Mine" and "You don't deserve..." attitude didn't go over any better 12 years ago at AWA.

Think carefully about what this guy is saying in his post. Because he earns 50% of what we earn now (his estimate), that means he's living in a bk world?! Wtf?! I think it would be great if NJA got another good deal. To do it, they have to sit down and negotiate and look across the table and say "yes, we deserve another 40% raise". That's a tall task in any environment. Now, having said that much about NJA, I don't care to waste another word on them. It could not matter less to airline guys what NJA does.