AA/US Airways merger and impact to their regionals...

[8sugarsugar]

there is just no way the legacies will replace retirements with legacy wages.

Interesting to see what will happen to SWA when the "new AMR/US air" has PSA and Air wis operating 737's and paying FO's 27,0000/year starting

5-10 years

Don't believe scope will get broken? The old retirement age guys will do whatever to serve themselves. they don't care about the young guys, they just care about their pensions.

 

[ex j-41]

There is nothing wrong with regionals flying 737's or larger. As long as the wages are comparable to other airlines. Southwest may be out of reach but spirit/allegiant/.... Might not be.

 

[Jetjockey]

there is just no way the legacies will replace retirements with legacy wages.

Interesting to see what will happen to SWA when the "new AMR/US air" has PSA and Air wis operating 737's and paying FO's 27,0000/year starting

5-10 years

Don't believe scope will get broken? The old retirement age guys will do whatever to serve themselves. they don't care about the young guys, they just care about their pensions.

Someone is living in alternate reality. Good luck with that prediction. If you were willing to fly a 737 for regional wages, you are a bigger fool than you portray here.

 

[Varmint]

Someone is living in alternate reality. Good luck with that prediction. If you were willing to fly a 737 for regional wages, you are a bigger fool than you portray here.

AHHH, you mean like getting hired and working for $25 or $30 an hour for the first year at a US Major and not making more than a regional captain for at least 3-5 years. I would call that flying a 737 for regional wages. Southwest and Delta are the only 2 airlines that come close to holding up the bar for the first few years of pay at US majors.

 

[ex j-41]

Or going to US Airways and getting stuck on the e190 and never making more than $55k.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Someone is living in alternate reality. Good luck with that prediction. If you were willing to fly a 737 for regional wages, you are a bigger fool than you portray here.

Check out RyanAir in Europe. 1st year FO's make $27,000, plus buy their own water on the plane and a "simulator recurrent fee" is taken out of their paycheck.

Would it get that bad in the states? doubtful as American pilots have balls, but Richard Anderson is foaming at the mouth.

 

[Jetjockey]

The Euro trash also have the MPL, so 300 hour wonders can sit in the right seat. Apples to Oranges my friend. You are basing your assumptions on past occurrences here in the states. Regional airlines have reached the high water mark and will decline in block hours flown. 50 seat regional jets are economically disadvantaged. Most scope clauses limit seats to 70. Mainline carriers are up-sizing equipment wherever possible. The paradigm is constantly shifting and your logic is based on post chapter 11 concessionary agreements.

Agreed the the starting pay at UAL, DAL are not stellar, but they pay doubles by year 3. The largest regional FO pay is terrible, and stays that way for 18-20 years. The only hope at a regional for a livable wage is to upgrade to captain. High attrition provides that movement.

To outwardly hope that regional airlines get future flying in larger equipment is severely short-sighted.

 

[8sugarsugar]

I don't hope regionals get larger equipment, just forecasting it. You bring up a good point with the 50 seat now economically disadvantaged. I view that as more of a reason for AMR to break scope and shift 737-800 size aircraft to the regional level.

Qantas, one of the most heavily unionized airlines in the world managed to do it with JetStar.

 

[Jetjockey]

I don't hope regionals get larger equipment, just forecasting it. You bring up a good point with the 50 seat now economically disadvantaged. I view that as more of a reason for AMR to break scope and shift 737-800 size aircraft to the regional level.

Qantas, one of the most heavily unionized airlines in the world managed to do it with JetStar.

You mean union busting. I'm not sure about Australian labor laws, but this country has protections against that. If you are not familiar with the 1113(c) portion of the US Bankruptcy courts, you will know that it is a major effort on the part of AA to abrogate portions of the C.B.A. I have been down that road twice in my career. It's not a walk in park for either party.

AA management has the hounds barking at the gate, (US Airways hostile bid takeover) and the government saying not so fast on dumping pension obligations onto the PBGC. Labor isn't rolling over with capitulating with the AA management "term sheet (aka Christmas wish list)". I don't see a bankruptcy judge setting a major precedence by over turning scope and jobs. The way I see it, AA management is getting the squeeze on more than one side. I'd say the pressure is on them.

We shall see how it al plays out. My money is on Doug Parker getting his wish, followed by another DUI. The real entertainment will be SLI, but that will be another 45 page thread to be played out later.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Every time I get pissed about being furloughed at NetJets, wishing I was back at the airlines, I read post after post about the continued nose dive aviation and the airlines specifically have continued to take. Being a plumber now surely isn't pretty work, but making what a senior RJ captain makes, home every night, holidays off, off to see the kids grow up, no crashpad, no commute, yada yada yada!!

Good luck fellas...furloughed from a steaming pile like NJ doesn't seem so bad after all. thx!