AA poll

[yaks]

I must agree with csy as this is the family business, and AA was not my first airline, my eyes are wide open. My point is that yes your friends may not like everything that goes on but the simple fact they have been there so long I think blinds them to the realities of the industry. There are a lot of crappy flying jobs out there but flying for AA is not one of them.

( I know the ANG doesn't qualify but I have seen some good and some really bad decisions made at the wing level as well as at the airlines, that's all I meant.)

 

[75M]

I can't disagree with anyone's opinion on this, but here's my take...I've flown for four airlines including three majors (not including AirTran which technically won't be a major until at least the full year 2004 numbers are in) and this is what I've noticed...

At three out of the four airlines, pilots referred to doing their job in terms similar to, "I have to go fly this weekend" or "I'm off until the end of the month and then I fly three on four off next month".

However, at American, the terminology was almost always similar to, "I'm off this weekend and then I work next week" or "I'm working on my wife's birthday", you get the idea. Additionally, I repeatedly heard AA pilots refer to an airplane as "the office" while saying "they would (fill in the blank) if they could make the same money doing something else" (e.g., flip burgers, shovel poop, etc.).

As an Ex-TWA pilot, I have no animosity toward AA Management. Circumstances got way out of control post 9-11 and although most of the former TWA pilots and ALL of the TWA F/A's ended up on the street, it had much more to do with the unions than management. Having said that, there is something about the culture at American Airlines that sucks all the fun out of flying (and it ain't the good kind of sucking).

There are very few pilots who make it to the Majors who didn't start out in love with aviation. We're a group of people who risked our lives, put relationships on hold, gave years of service to the military and ran up huge debts via student loans, credit cards, etc. just in order to fly airplanes for a living.

Yet, after all that, some would rather walk away from AMR, only to be forced to go back when threatened with divorce. Inconceivably, from what I saw from January 0f 2001 until May of 2003, that's a common sentiment among AA pilots. Granted, the last several years weren't exactly the golden age of the airline business, (we all know when that was) but if you love to fly, it oughta show.

Bottomline, something about working at American makes people miserable. I guess the real reason they bought TWA was because they needed the company.

 

[CSY Mon]

Yet, after all that, some would rather walk away from AMR, only to be forced to go back when threatened with divorce.

Well, Mr. 75, perhaps you misunderstood part of my post:

I did not try to walk away from AA because it was such a lousy outfit, but rather 'cause I was burned out with flying and did not really want another job.
Did 13 years of only long-hauls before AA and had it up to my eyebrows with airports, pax, 40 hour days, (Nights) simulators, commuting, chapter 11s, 7s, etc, etc.

AA was acually nice to me and the future was looking bright back in Nov. 2000 IF one was into it with body and soul....I was not.

As native new hires with AA we got treated pretty darn well:
Good training, plenty of time to go home during the week-ends, straight to "A" scale after the probation...No complaints from me, but have also heard the stories about ruthless managment and all that...Just never felt it on the body, but that does not mean I am full of Kool-Aid, rather neutral on the subject.

Some AA guys are still bitching about how much they lost on the B scale and how much reduced their retirement is, compared to the A scalers and all that.
They also think managment are laying awake at night trying to think of a way to screw the pilots.
Some guys are never happy, you find them at all companies / airlines.

The C/Ps I have met and dealt with have all been OK, seen much worse over at Evergreen and Tower Air and a few other places.

 

[AA717driver]

CSY--My wife said she'd divorce me if I DID go back to AA! Bottom line is...the bottom line. If I can go back in a couple of years as STL/S80/CA I may have to do it. Like I said, I'm 46 so it's pretty much fish-or-cut-bait time for me. If AA looks the least bit shaky or it takes more than a couple of years, I'll stick it out here in corporate-land.

I hope you have some time left to recoup your losses. Good luck finding something in the interim.TC

P.S.--When Tower shut down, I was truly sorry. There were some good people over there. I shared several rides on the Princeton Airporter with Tower pilots and FA's.

 

[Swede]

I think a lot of AA angst came from the confrontational 80's and the origination of B-scale. Say what you will about Bobby Crandall, he was one smart guy and understood the industry well. Back when pilots were the well-paid professionals we all either remember or daydream about, he realized that getting a large group of pilots to work for substandard wages would give him a competitive leg-up. The APA bit, the B-scale was born, and AA went from being a modest major carrier to the monster it was in the late 80's early 90's.

I'm not defending the B-scale. I think it sucked, it set a precedent which has continued to this day... In management's mind, low wages = more competitve.

I've always been treated well at AA. The training facility, sims, and instructors are superb. The Chief Pilots have always helped me out when I needed it. Check airman, with RARE exception, are excellent. I think with Arpey we are on our way to surviving this horrible time in our industry. AA's big lack is in Asia. We have the jets with the 777, just not the route authority. Central/South America are cash cows, the Miami hub can make big bux if the infrastructure can keep up with the high demand. The dammed oil prices need to drop, combined with a nationwide surge in business.

 

[Av8trxx]

Nazi-isms & AMR

It's also amusing to note, that if they, at AA, are called sky nazis, then we, at Eagle, must be the hitler youth...

No small coincidence then that the Hitler Youth, ah.. I mean AE terminal at LAX is nick named the "Nest" as Hitlers summer retreat was called the "Eagles Nest"...

http://www.eagles-nest.de/seite/geschichte_e.htm

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

"Crandall Youth"

No small coincidence then that the Hitler Youth, ah.. I mean AE terminal at LAX is nick named the "Nest" as Hitlers summer retreat was called the "Eagles Nest"...

http://www.eagles-nest.de/seite/geschichte_e.htm

I always preferred "Crandall Youth" myself, but now I am dating myself (mostly because nobody else would go out with me! I've been up too late and need to put the keyboard down so nobody gets hurt)

 

[Slim]

As a former AA F/A, and now a captain at CMR, I have both views...inside and outside.

I departed AA and started at CMR in the 1990s. I started well before CMR was purchased by DAL. The way we (my family and I)were treated by CMR was better than AA by far. The pass benefits for us, and my parents, were improved (free vs. the D2 service charge); the medical coverage was better (fixed dollar co-pay vs. percentage of the bill co-pay and lower monthly cost vs. AA's monthly cost) and a better overall attitude.

I could return from a three day trip at AA and believe morale couldn't get much worse. Then, during my next trip, find that the morale was indeed worse. The worst day at CMR, including those leading up to the strike, were better than my best day at AA during the last 10 years or so.

I still maintain contact with some of my former co-workers at AA, pilots and F/As. According to some, if AA isn't around tomorrow, they won't look for another flying job. That tells me AMR/AA management does take the fun out of flying.

I do realize my take on things at AA was partially my own doing because I wasn't doing the kind of flying I wanted to do. That said, the management at AA (excluding Arpey, Hettermann, etc.) did a masterful job of infuriating its work force. Carty was at AA when I departed. I know little of Arpey and do know Mark Hettermann. I'm glad I'm not in their shoes.

Good luck and fly safe!

 

[AA717driver]

Slim--Arpey and Hetterman are talking the talk. Time will tell. I've heard Hetterman is cut from the same mold as Cecil was.

I know they could have put a SOB in STL but they chose a really nice guy. Maybe they're serious.TC