AA Pilots - check out www.letter3.org

[Letter3.org]

AA pilots,

Please visit - www.Letter3.org (your Supp W)

APA is making changes to Supplement W, our Letter 3, without the approval of ALPA, a co-signer of the document. That one labor union would do this to another labor union is shocking.

Back in 1997, AA, AE, APA, and ALPA signed a contract that provided "exceptions" to our Basic Agreements, Supp W/Letter 3, for a duration of 10 years. The changes to it in your TA did not involve ALPA in any form, but ALPA is one of the co-signers and without its consent, APA and management are misleading your pilots into thinking that all future "incremental" vacancies are for the AA pilots.

Besides these changes, your furloughees should know that Eagle would require a 2 year lock in when you get here and you'll only be able to leave at a rate of 20/month. If 1000 AA pilots come back to Eagle, that would take over 4 years to get the last pilot back to the mother ship - providing that the hiring cycle lasted that long. In the meantime, junior furloughees that bypassed Eagle or even new hires would fill your slot if you became an Eagle Flow Back.

This one provision is not good for you or for us. It's very possible that many of those who flow back under this TA, won't make it back to AA for a long time, if ever. Under the current Supp W, there are no lock ins and there is no limit to how fast you can be recalled, just a provision that says you can be withheld for 6 months.

Please drop by www.letter3.org to learn more about what it says and what it means.

 

[AAflyer]

Well, it is nice to see a professional approach at this subject. It was getting a little stupid hearing AA pilots being called SCABS.

Apparently during this time when both sides should have been talking the only thing that was coming over to APA from ALPA was legal jargin and how we would be delt with, that sounds about as poorly as APA handled the situation

There are currently about 19 AA pilots flying at Eagle under Supp W. Do you know many have flowed into American?

There are only 100 positions opening up to furloughed AA pilots, now we will have a total of 119, still far less than what came over.

I guess when times are good come on over with two years seniority but when times get bad, screw AA pilots and take what we can take?

As for AA flying the 70seater, yeah right. Have you delt with AMR management before? APA had the option to arbitrate ove this issue and AA would consider it if it where COST NUETRAL. DO YOU SEE ALL THE LOOP HOLES IN THAT STATEMENT!

One thing I am getting real tired of is being treated poorly for events beyond my control. I did not have anything to do with this agreement for RJs, I had nothing to do with buying TWA or how they were integrated.

If you want to get pissed get pissed at

1. Osama Bin Laden for causing this
2. Lawmakers going after the RLA
3. Greedy CEOs lining their pockets as they fleece unionized labor
4. Low Cost Carriers that have stable business plan
5. AMR managment for whip-shawing both groups

But don't get pissed at me or other uniformed crew members who fly airplanes for AA. We are about to furlough more pilots at this airline then you have on your entire seniority list. Many of us will be taking pay cuts in excess of 30% as we are bounced off our current seat.Life sucks over here as it does almost everywhere else.

AAflyer

 

[Letter3.org]

Well, we feel your pain, but what do you think about AA/AE/APA rolling over a four party contract? I imagine you might say, "Management rolls over our contract all the time, what else is new?" Or you might say that if AA/AE/ALPA was doing it APA, that would be unacceptable. I would suspect so.

The bottom line here is that APA is serving as a tool for management to undercut labor. APA is only serving to make a bad situation worse by acting like its actions don't matter in the bigger scheme of things - the quality of the profession. The rest of us in the industry pay for this kind of thinking (remember B-scale?).

You probably don't realize this, but when Eagle pilots were sold Letter 3/Supp W, we were told by management that the hiring at AA would not start for 18 months, which was how long the initial lock in was, so that our guys would be among the first hired at AA. Instead, AA started hiring over 100 month right away, essentially locking Eagle pilots out of the hiring cycle. There are only about 130 Eagle pilots that made it over in 4 years. We were sold a bill of goods that weren't delivered, and when we complained, we were shown the details in Letter 3 to show that management was playing it by the book. Now, they couldn't care less what it says because it doesn't suit them or APA.

More of your pilots would have flowed back to Eagle, but they were not qualified to sit in the left seat of the RJ due to inexperience.

If you'll spend some time with Letter 3 you'll see that your pilots are entitled to all of the EXISTING CJ captain seats less Eagle rights. That's about 450-500. That's a lot more that the 130 of our guys that went over.

The bigger point is that any compliance with Letter 3 that you're not satisfied with is NOT due to ALPA seeking to keep you out of Eagle. On the contrary, we know we took a risk when we signed Letter 3 and we're willing to take the hit of the flow backs. I can't say that about APA. APA would rather ignore ALPA and find a backhanded means with management to circumvent the obligations called for in Letter 3.

As far as the complaint about ALPA's legal talk in meetings, when ALPA showed up to a meeting with APA and management, the other side wanted to talk about the changes to Letter 3. ALPA on the other hand was there to talk about why they think they can change Letter3 without ALPA's consent. BIG DIFFERENCE! The meeting was not held to NEGOTIATE a solution. It was there to brow beat ALPA. Darrah apparently became frustrated with our reps and threatened to get more concessions from you and your colleagues to pay the training costs necessary to displace our captains so that he "could make a point" to us Eagle pilots about who runs the show at AMR.

Well, John Darrah, GO AHEAD! Because that's what Letter 3 says you have to do to get one of your guys to Eagle! If APA or management don't like that, then they are obligated to negotiate with ALPA, not threaten Eagle pilots into submission. Does your union stand by its word or does it make a deal and then squirm out of it when it doesn't please them. Is APA really a tool of management? In this case, yes!

Finally, the TA is a product of your union and your management. When we demand that our (yours and mine) Letter 3/Supp W) is enforced or negotiated, we are not trying to screw the AA pilot as you suggest! On the contrary, your union is sabotaging our (yours and mine) contract and they should be ashamed of it. It's a pathetic day when one union does that to another, especially when your union has shown no effort to open the lines of negotiations with ALPA.

Nobody is pissed at the AA pilots...we know where to place the outrage. There was an Eagle pilot that was refused the AA jumpseat over this stuff which is unbelievable, but true.

I would encourage you to disconnect yourself from the rhetoric you're hearing from all the unions and management, get to know Supp W, and then tell us who is screwing who.

 

[AAflyer]

Take a look at some of the other threads and tell me that the pilots are not taking it out on the pilots.

As for John Darrah, he is not regarded very well, as there is an effort to have him removed, and this turd of a TA, I am one ofthe 31% who told them where they could put the TA.

I do understand where you are coming from, I was ex-eagle although I did not flow through. Like I have told loafman in the past I was one who wanted the both groups come together and tell AA mang. where to go.

I am not stupid, however the crap APA is pulling ALPA is not sitting there like a poor little innocent victim. I do sympathize and find it unacceptable, just as unacceptable if it had happened to me, and I WILL PASS IT ALONG to WHOM I FLY WITH. I still have many friends at Eagle and do not want to see them hurt.

Thank you once again for your professional demeanor, it says a lot about who you are.

AAflyer

P.S. Please PM me and let me know what I can do to help on this side.

 

[VMA214]

Quote by Letter3.org: "Nobody is pissed at the AA pilots...we know where to place the outrage. There was an Eagle pilot that was refused the AA jumpseat over this stuff which is unbelievable, but true."

Not many things tick me off more than this stuff. I don't care how many times I hear crap on this board about "scaabs", "Nazis" etc., ANY Eagle pilot or any other pilot who wants or needs a ride on my airplane will get one!!!

We need to knock this garbage off...

 

[Letter3.org]

Actually, when I said that we weren't taking it out on the AA pilots, what I was really eluding to was the crewroom talk. I don't spend much time on these boards because it's full of "drive by shootings". To me it's a waste of time to get wrapped up in it with people who bitch but don't really debate.

By and large, the focus has been on the unjustified changes to Letter 3 without our consent. Our frustration and anger is directed toward management and APA, not the line pilot. The SCAAB badges that were being worn by some was, I believe, something that happened at one base, but it isn't the mainstream belief.

If APA had any sense, it would see the mass displacement issue as a point of leverage against the company since the company only seems to respect those groups that put up a fight. They don't respect cooperation. To them cooperation means that labor gives and management takes. Everytime we do it, we lose.

And especially since there is the potential for 100s of AA pilots flying the Eagle contract, not to mention 450 or so of us with AA numbers, you'd think APA would at least be interested in improving the Eagle situation, not disemboweling it.

Another principle in this fight is this: What's next in our contract that management will try to unilaterally change without our consent? Without enforcement, what little we have is lost.

The irony of this TA is that the FACTS speak for themselves, so it's easy to take a position that is as devoid of politics as possible.

FACT: AA, AE, APA, and ALPA negotiated and signed a contract in 1997 with a duration of 10 years.

FACT: AA and APA are seeking to change it. Of course AE has to go along with it as our top execs are AA employees looking to stay on the "fast track".

FACT: Letter 3 contains "exceptions" to the Basic Agreements (Preamble Para. C). It is NOT a stand alone document. Anything that is not specifically allowed in Letter 3 is controlled by our (and your) Basic Agreement, period. APA does NOT have the right to "waive" displacement (although ALPA would probably consent to it if asked and management loves the idea), and it does NOT have the right to retain those seats by giving all furloughed pilots recall rights into our vacancies. I challenge anyone to show me those rights in Letter 3.

FACT: Eagle management makes no secret that the TA is a change in Letter 3. Where APA tries to create a smoke screen that they are simply waiving a right, and therefore no consent of ALPA is required, we get emails from management and posting on the company Q&A page clearly stating that Letter 3 says one thing and the TA something very different.

FACT: ALPA was left out in the cold and continues to be shunned by AA, AE, and APA. When those parties criticize ALPA's attitude, it is a smear campaign. They are determined NOT to negotiate with ALPA.

FACT: If you had a major stake in a contract, and the other co-signers were not only violating it, but seeking to make changes without your consent, you'd be talking to a lawyer, too, and you'd be making **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** sure that all you're ducks are in a row before going to court, if necessary. You'd be making sure that you follow all the steps in the grievance process and carefully choose your words in public so that when the day comes to file your suit, you're in a strong position.

I've been around a long time here and I've never seen the Eagle pilots so unified on a topic as this one. On the other hand, I was talking with a senior AA captain the other day who thought it was perfectly acceptable to change Letter 3 if it wasn't working out in AA's favor. When pressed about the need to get ALPA's consent, the captain kind of choked on the thought as though APA doesn't have to do things like that.

Another pointer that you may not be aware of. The flow back part was designed by APA and ALPA to be EXTREMELY costly to management to implement in order to discourage them from using token furloughs like they do during contract talks. The impediments were designed to protect your job security.

To prove management's commitment to skirt the requirement that AA pilots displace Eagle RJ captains in order to flow back, management has done the following:

1. The initial wave of flow backs a year and a half ago were never trained but paid to stay at home. The next more senior wave was trained. Management did not want the hassle or cost of the displacements.

2. When the LAX base was opened, management gave our vacancies to pilots who did not have the right to get them - AA flow backs. Management did not want the cost and hassle of the potential displacement ripple effect as many of us would have proferred a displacement off the jet to get back to home base.

3. Our company president last winter said that if APA and ALPA ever did an integration that created mass displacements at Eagle, then Eagle would be sold to avoid the training costs.

4. And finally, AA negotiated away the "right" to displace EMB captains which wipes out almost all of the displacements.

Management is HUGELY committed to not have the cost or the headache of implementing Letter 3 as agreed. Was management duped on this on in 1997. Hardly, and there chess players are better than anyone else's here. They just gambled that a 9/11 scenario of a dramatic downturn in the industry wasn't going to happen. Now that is has, they're screwed and don't want to pay the piper, or in this case negotiated with ALPA, thereby showing RESPECT for the contract and for their own employees.

If Mr. Arpey seeks to made a real difference here, he should start by fixing this bad habit that management has.

I would ask of you what we've been asking of everyone:

1. Get highly educated on Letter 3/Supplement W. It contains both right and protections for BOTH of our groups. Eagle pilots flowing to AA was never meant to be a free-for-all and AA pilots flowing back likewise. Limited up, limited back.

2. Ask your management, chiefs, fellow pilots, and union reps why they don't they think they need to, e.g., live up to their signature on a piece of paper. Ask your union why they are in collusion with management against ALPA and the Eagle pilots. On the www.letter3.org site there is a laundry list of questions that come to mind. Probably the best one would be why management thinks that it can lead this company in a positive manner when it still relies upon contract abuses followed by scare tactics to cheat their way out of their promises to labor.

3. Submit to us any public documents that would help all of us understand what is going on behind the scenes so that we can cut through the rhetoric that is bombarding and confusing a lot of us. In your first post when you talked about ALPA talking in legal jargon, etc..., I knew that you didn't necessarily have a balanced view of both sides of the issue. On the web site, we have a lot of Eagle stuff, but that's because that's home territory. We're just as interested in getting AA stuff to add balance. The facts are clear but cutting through the spin is hard. But we know it's spin anytime that management (ours) starts defending the actions of APA while at the same time criticizing ALPA's. Management detests unions.

Thanks for the feedback and please spread the word that we all need to get actively involved on both sides of this problem and hold management and the unions accountable, because our livelihoods are at stake.

www.Letter3.org