AA 590 Blows tire in TPA and choose to RTO

[FlyBigE]

AA Blows tire and performs High Speed RTO.




What are your thoughts on clearing the runway vs staying on the runway?


What are your thoughts on continuing the take off vs rejecting for a tire in the high speed regime.

 

[Neal]

Runway is already closed for FOD, either option is probably fine.

Definitely abort if you can IMHO, could be a fire and I don't want to deal with that in flight with no silk letdown.

Yep, as I watch this further there is fire.

Where is there no communication to evacuate???

 

[FlyBigE]

Runway is already closed for FOD, either option is probably fine.

Definitely abort if you can IMHO, could be a fire and I don't want to deal with that in flight with no silk letdown.

Yep, as I watch this further there is fire.

Where is there no communication to evacuate???

Tower comms were lacking in this situation. You cannot see the wheels from the cockpit. All the cockpit knows is there is tire damage, and possible wheel/brake fire. Not all aircraft have wheel temp sensors.

My experience and training has been to stay on the runway. It is closed anyways and gives CFR the best access to the aircraft. Also, it gives a level surface to evac onto if you need to as well. You will see signs at some airports telling aircraft do not stop on the bridges. Another airport that has bad taxiway access is FLL off of 10R. There are huge drops on either side of the runway turn offs.

We obviously don't have the all the specific data, but in the high speed regime it is better to continue with a tire failure and then come back and land with the entire runway available. With blown tires on one side you are trying to stop the aircraft with just the good side. RTO will usually lead to brake fires due to the enormous amount heat generated.

For a small fire like that with CFR on the way I wouldn't evac either. If you EVAC there will be injuries, that's a given.

I wonder if they hit something on the runway. Normally don't see both tires go at once...

Just my .02

 

[Neal]

Certainly a lot of factors such as runway length, and every pilot's decision making and there's no wrong answer. But we can be keyboard warriors or whatever they call it, just glad it worked out. But in my YouTube watching of your professional pilots and your pre-departure briefs, isn't there a "if something happens prior to X then we do Y?" - and I assume that X incident occurred prior to the Y speed?

 

[FlyBigE]

I know at all the places I have flown large jets. A blown tire is covered in the type ride and periodically through recurrent sims. Both Airbus and Boeing say it is better to continue with a blown tire in a high speed regime (above 80) than try to abort. Yes it is covered in the briefing and/or SOP's for carrier. I know on the airbus above 80 RTO's are for red lights, select master cautions or failure to fly. The airbus has a TO INHIBIT function will only let master warnings and a couple master cautions through that could affect the ability to fly. The rest of the items are suppressed and not shown to the crew until later in the climb out. When I flew 727's we are also trained to be GO minded as well.

Again we all have the advantage of looking at this from the comfort of our arm chair and unlimited time. The Captain had to make the decision in a couple of seconds at most. Perhaps the yaw and loud noise they thought they canned a motor.

Regardless, they did a good job on the reject, got it stopped, and no one got hurt. So at the end of the day it's a win.

 

[kwilliams]

Certainly a lot of factors such as runway length, and every pilot's decision making and there's no wrong answer. But we can be keyboard warriors or whatever they call it, just glad it worked out. But in my YouTube watching of your professional pilots and your pre-departure briefs, isn't there a "if something happens prior to X then we do Y?" - and I assume that X incident occurred prior to the Y speed?

Hi Neal. saw your youtube videos. I am out of Atlanta and would like to pick your brain. You seem to have alot of experience and knowledge in Aviation. How do i send you a direct message?

 

[Neal]

Hi Neal. saw your youtube videos. I am out of Atlanta and would like to pick your brain. You seem to have alot of experience and knowledge in Aviation. How do i send you a direct message?

Hello and thank you. You can ask questions on the forum here but if you need something offline you can private message me on the site clicking the envelope on the right side of the toolbar above.

 

[b757driver]

AA Blows tire and performs High Speed RTO.




What are your thoughts on clearing the runway vs staying on the runway?


What are your thoughts on continuing the take off vs rejecting for a tire in the high speed regime.

If able, clear the runway. That’s what ATC and the airport operator wants. Otherwise, you will lose that runway for at least a few hours.
If you are able to clear and stop on the taxiway, they din5 have to close the runway. Simple as that.

 

[Neal]

I imagine the runway is closed as long as it takes to clear the FOD.

 

[b757driver]

That is correct. Depending on the state of the aircraft and also runway (which will need to be inspected before opening), that may be only an hour or quite a few hours.
It will depend on the resounding airline, their personnel and equipment and how soon the disabled aircraft can be removed.
To give you an idea, the BA B777 that rejected its takeoff at KLAS in 2014 following an engine fire and full evacuation on the runway, that RWY was closed for more than 8 hours prior to aircraft removal and FOD sweep! I was one of the ops personnel involved!

 

[FlyBigE]

My last concern is what the company and airport wants for "convenience". If it goes south, I want the best chance for an EVAC and give CFR the best access to the aircraft. Once CFR comes out and clears the aircraft then we can discuss taxiing to the gate or remote area with CFR in tow, in case anything flares up.

 

[b757driver]

My last concern is what the company and airport wants for "convenience". If it goes south, I want the best chance for an EVAC and give CFR the best access to the aircraft. Once CFR comes out and clears the aircraft then we can discuss taxiing to the gate or remote area with CFR in tow, in case anything flares up.

Every airport in conjunction with ATC has their protocols and they all do a professional job. You should realize that. It’s not what you think. Apparently.

 

[FlyBigE]

I never said the airport ops and CFR were unprofessional. I do disagree with clearing the runway for certain emergencies until after CFR has checked the aircraft and an evac becomes unlikely. We can agree to disagree on it.

 

[b757driver]

Clearing the RWY depends on many factors, of course, and is a PIC decision naturally. That’s why ARFF makes contact and asks what the intentions are. Sometimes it’s pretty obvious the aircraft cannot vacate because it is disabled like blown tires or damaged wheels. Other times nose-wheel steering may be out.
However, if none of those apply, it’s not life-threatening and you have a high speed turnoff or otherwise with an adjacent TWY, both ATC and Airport Ops will thank you, trust me on that one! If not, then so be it, RWY will be closed for a while.
Nothing to do with professionalism or otherwise. It’s to do with the specific circumstances at the time and working together to alleviate a situation together.
Last but not least, it’s much preferable to EVAC on an adjoining or parallel TWY, rather than an active RWY, so that should be taken in to account also. I’ve handled both situations - on and off the RWY.
As you can see, not really disagreeing with you, just looking at the bigger picture as both a retired pilot and Airport Ops supervisor.