A Suicidal Student?

[gear goes down]

I have only been a flight instructor for a little under a year now and thought I have seen everything, until yesterday. It was with a potential new student. He is an older guy and road a lot in airplanes in the Vietnam war (and was shot down twice). He is a big talker and just wont shut up about the war and getting shot down. Anyways, all in all he is a really nice guy, however, seams to have some issues about the Vietnam thing still (which is understandable).

Well, we had a into flight scheduled yesterday and he showed up. When he got here he was walking around the ramp talking to other pilots and smoking near airplanes. My Chief flight instructor saw this and told me to tell him that he is not allowed on the ramp without an instructor and not to smoke near the airplanes. So I did. I politely asked him to not smoke near the planes and explained why, letting him now that it could possibly cause an explosion from the fuel vapors. And he replied back with “oh, that’s ok, I’m suicidal anyways.” That got me thinking.

I reported that to the Chief instructor an he had a talk with him for about 15 min. and said he should be fine to fly but I had the final decision. So I decided (hesitantly) to go, we flew and everything was fine. After we land he is now really interested in getting his pilots license. I explained the medical certificate process and gave him the name of the dr I send all my students to. He replied that he already has a flight dr from the VA where he can get a medical and he has already talked with him. The dr told him if this flight went good that he could get his medical.

If he actually gets his medical certificate this will be a strange one. Does anyone have any thought or concerns about someone like this? I just don’t know what to do about this one.

 

[Andy Neill]

Sounds to me like an off the cuff remark and wouldn't, by itself, be of any concern to me.

I had a stick buddy when I was going through initial training who WAS suicidal - wanted to unstrap and jump out during his flight lesson. He never soloed and was eliminated for obvious reasons.

 

[svcta]

Yeah, don't get wrapped up in this. Bear in mind that you had just told him he was doing something wrong.......he was probably trying to make light of the situation and save a little embarassment.

And for the record, a smoker is not going to blow an airplane up unless he's really really trying. And even then it will be very hard.

Dig the Uncle Rico avatar, by the way.

 

[Metro752]

gear goes down

god dang you were brought up in a sheltered enviroment, besides the fact that you aren't going to blow up an airplane by smoking cigarettes standing next to it, in it, on it, under it.

He's a Vietnam vet, he made that joke, and you had to hassle him about it.

YOU COULD have been cool, and said hey man, my boss doesn't want anyone to be smoking near the airplanes. I guarantee 99% he would have stopped, and if he didn't stop after his current cigarette, then I would ask him again, and say it's not your policy, it's the flight schools, and you could get in trouble if he continues while he's under your instruction.

He probably said what he said about suicide because you're a little sally.


NOW, if you are a petite female, and all this went down and you didn't know how to handle it, ok I take back everything else I wrote.

Otherwise, get some social skills and grow up and quit hasseling vets who are trying to learn how to fly, and in the process paying your meal ticket.

Also about the VA medical examiner......... Do you have any idea what a VA is? VA is a hospital for veterans........it would be a discounted/free exam for the guy instead of shelling out a $100 for a medical from some dumb civillian doctor. I hope your feelings really weren't that hurt if he didn't want to go see who you referred him to.

 

[Metro752]

hehe maybe i went a little overboard, sorry

 

[JediNein]

Yeah Metro. A little. It's not the fuel that causes the explosion, it's the fuel vapors coming out of the fuel vents that cause the explosion.

 

[svcta]

Even the vapors are hard to ignite(nearly, if not completely,impossible) with a ciggy. Beside the fact that they won't even ignite in regular air without exactly 14.7:1 mixture(forgive me if that number is off a bitm I'm working from memory here). It just requires more heat than a cigarette makes in open air. Try it sometime(disclaimer:with proper supervision, kiddies). I've never been able to light any kind of gasoline with a lit smoke. Yes, I have tried. All in the name of science, of course. And before I gave it up I worked on a lot of airplanes with cigarettes. I also gave up smoking, too.

 

[RipCurl]

I'd agree with the rest... just a joke.

However, it does happen.

 

[nosehair]

To all the folks who subscribe to the idea that smoking near an airplane won't blow it up:

Landing an airplane off centerline and crabbing a little won't crash it.

Wallowing away from the runway on take-off won't crash it, as long as you don't hit trees or towers.

Not doing a good preflight and run-up probably won't cause a crash.

....and on and on, I could list a thousand things that we do to prevent accidents that would probably not be a direct cause of a crash...

So whynhell do we do such things?


Because once in a while, maybe one in a thousand, it is a direct or contributing facor in accident causes....

....but more importantly, the discipline we practice when in and around airplanes and the airport is what puts us in the mindset of being extra careful. That's why we have such an excellent accident rate. That's why it is more dangerous to be in a car on the road than in any airplane.

We go the extra mile in observing extra safety.

 

[svcta]

I'm not saying that the concept should be disregarded as a matter of course. Simply that it doesn't present the danger most people think it does. There is a lot more science behind it than not doing a preflight, or crabbing a little, etc. I've seen people freak out when they see smokers around aiplanes; and knee-jerk reactions bother me. The facts behind why your airplane won't be blown up by a smoker(ever, face it) are interesting. I think.

 

[PositionandHold]

If he were suicidal, he wouldn't share that with you.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I'd chalk it up to a poor choice of words on his part. But for your own peace of mind, maybe read up on the signs and symptoms of sucidal people and see if he exhibts any of these traits. Chances are he probably isn't suicidal and like PositionandHold stated, wouldn't necessarily advertise such a proclivity if he were.

 

[wrxpilot]

Beside the fact that they won't even ignite in regular air without exactly 14.7:1 mixture(forgive me if that number is off a bitm I'm working from memory here).

Stick to your day job - that is BAD, WRONG, INACCURATE, *DANGEROUS* advice.

 

[AV80R]

“If he were suicidal, he wouldn't share that with you.”

Absolutely wrong! Majority of people who are contemplating a suicide WILL share it with someone as their last attempt of asking for help. Unfortunately, most of the time they will not tell you directly “I am thinking about committing a suicide,” instead they’ll complain about life, relationships, and having nothing good to be looking forward to.

In other words, they sound just like the majority of us when we are having a bad day. Hopefully, you or someone else will be able to decipher their intentions before it’s too late. Btw. I know this because many, many years ago I needed counseling myself for failing to recognize a friend’s intentions.

I read your post and I too believe the guy made a bad joke because you put him on the spot. However, I had to clarify the “he wouldn’t share that with you” comment. Because my friend did.

 

[BushwickBill]

It happened at 069 airport. The instructor and everyone who knew the guy had no idea he was even thinking about it. No warning whatsoever. It could happen to any CFI at any time. I wouldn't bother worrying about it. It's just part of life. People kill themselves. Very few will make it through the medical process because of the perscription drugs question. They get to keep a student medical for a long time so problems can develop.

 

[PositionandHold]

I see your point. I'm no psychologist, but I just didn't think he would tell that to someone so random. Someone he'd never met before.

You seem to be more informed about this than me, though.

 

[AV80R]

“I see your point. I'm no psychologist, but I just didn't think he would tell that to someone so random. Someone he'd never met before. “

From the way it was explained to me most of the time you’re correct, they will look to confine in someone they know. Unless they’re really embarrassed about feeling the way they do, then they might confine to a total stranger. One big surprise to me was that males were less inclined to talk to their friends and relatives than the females.

Some “unusual” symptoms that something might not be right? People who have been known to be grumpy all of a sudden become very friendly and almost overly joyful (they know they’ll be heading to a “better place” because they made up their minds). They like to give out some of their belongings for seemingly no reason; in my case I received (and still have ) a small Corsair airplane model. “…I really don’t have any space for this thing and it just keeps collecting dust anyway, please take it…” was what I was told. Giving away stuff is a form of “ensuring a positive legacy” from what was explained to me. I keep the airplane so I won’t ever forget what to do if I get suspicious. Murky subject…

 

[nosehair]

The facts behind why your airplane won't be blown up by a smoker(ever, face it) are interesting. I think.

I agree with you on the knee-jerk response thing. I hate to see that in any situation.

But I think you might be surprised to learn that the no-smoking rule came about 'back in the day' when the military was figuring all this airplane stuff out. Much of our systematic way of operating is from that time, and does need to be rethought, I agree, but I would never use the word 'never'.

Oops ! I just did, didn't I?

Think big airplanes and heavy fuel flows with heavy rich vapors overflowing from high wings with a match or lighted cigarette underneath the wing beneath the heavy rich vapor overflow. Think it might happen?

Yeah, I know that's not gonna happen refueling your warrior, but we follow a lot of rules which can be bended to adjust to the real time situation, and that is the point of not responding in a knee-jerk fashion, but still, we need to be ever concious of habit patterns which can overlow into dangerous situations.

 

[lowtimedriver]

He should be safe to fly with. Afterall, he got shot down twice in the Nam and lived. Sounds like a pretty lucky dude to me. Wear a parachute just in case though.

 

[Andrew_VT]

Metro you're my hero...well said

I have to censor most of what I say on these boards cause if I dont it all comes out like your post. Then I get PM's from people telling me I'm a prick.

There's that whole "Aviation is a small community thing" and my screenname makes me trackable. But yeah, telling on a 'nam vet for, well, being a 'nam vet...priceless.