A sad realization - ASA pay

[wickedpilot]

It really just hit me hard how sad the pay scales are for 1 - 2 year airline employees.

At ASA for example: If a first year FO ($19.02/hr) is flying with a 2nd year Flight Attendant(s) ($19.75/hour) the pecking order is essentially:

1. Captain
2. Flight Attendant
3. First Officer

We need fair contracts across the industry! NOW!!! :angryfire

 

[crjskipper]

get over yourself - after your first year your pay about doubles.

the fa gets about another buck or two.

 

[gator_hater]

You just now figured that out? What would the public think if they knew that was the case?

If ALPA wants to save this profession they should make it well known that there are FA's who make more than the guy driving the plane. Instead they their publicity unit is focused on the guy making 200k getting knocked down to 165k.

No anti-ALPA i just think they've got their priorities way out of line.

 

[ohplease!]

You just now figured that out? What would the public think if they knew that was the case?

If ALPA wants to save this profession they should make it well known that there are FA's who make more than the guy driving the plane. Instead they their publicity unit is focused on the guy making 200k getting knocked down to 165k.

No anti-ALPA i just think they've got their priorities way out of line.

forget about alpa for a second....the real problem, in my opinion, is the hoards of people willing to pay upwards of $100k (most of them financing it all at astronomical interest rates) to get the job paying $19hr. Its just a new form of PFT.

 

[Palerider957]

The public could not care less what the buss drivers are making. As far as they are concerned every airline pilot makes $200K/yr and works three days a month.

ohplease.....I almost agree with you, but look at the number of medical and veternarian school applications, compared with the final number of MD's and vets. What I think is that these professions have done a much better job of protecting/limiting their required credentials, and limiting the number of people admitted to the club. What if only a handful of ATP's were allowed to be issued each year? What if part 121 requirements were codified at 7,000 hrs for FO? Salaries and compensation would be much higher across the board.

I don't advocate any of this, but I do think lack of required credentials has deflated the pricing power of individual pilots.

 

[Traderd]

It really just hit me hard how sad the pay scales are for 1 - 2 year airline employees.

At ASA for example: If a first year FO ($19.02/hr) is flying with a 2nd year Flight Attendant(s) ($19.75/hour) the pecking order is essentially:

1. Captain
2. Flight Attendant
3. First Officer

We need fair contracts across the industry! NOW!!! :angryfire

Reduce the 2nd year FA's pay to $19.00/hr. Then you have the following pecking order:

1. Captain
2. First Officer
3. Flight Attendant


Problem solved.

 

[blueridge71]

It really just hit me hard how sad the pay scales are for 1 - 2 year airline employees.

At ASA for example: If a first year FO ($19.02/hr) is flying with a 2nd year Flight Attendant(s) ($19.75/hour) the pecking order is essentially:

1. Captain
2. Flight Attendant
3. First Officer

We need fair contracts across the industry! NOW!!! :angryfire

It just hit you?!?!?

Where have you been for the last seven years?

 

[Tarzan]

Pecking order my butt. I have no problem assertting myself if need be in that situation. If the CA ain't there, my neck is next on the chopping block.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

1st year pay will go up in the next contract, exactly how much is up for grabs. I would expect a single rate jet FO scale similar to that of SKW, current book on the CR7 with a bump for CR2/ATR cpt. I just hope it is a nice size bump...

 

[benjakes]

You just now figured that out? What would the public think if they knew that was the case?

If ALPA wants to save this profession they should make it well known that there are FA's who make more than the guy driving the plane. Instead they their publicity unit is focused on the guy making 200k getting knocked down to 165k.

No anti-ALPA i just think they've got their priorities way out of line.

Gator is right!

I said it many times. Just the huge black eye Delta would get if ALPA rented the tiger woods sign (Accenture) as you go down the esculators, and published the pilot pay scale, with a catch phase of "Do you still want to fly today"?

But Alpa stands for: Always liked penetration anally. ALPA has devolved into SPAZ from high School. No Balls at all.

 

[HA25]

get over yourself -

Why should he? He paid upwards of $100K and spent 4 years in college, and up to 1000 hours training and taking checkrides, while she may have been selling makeup at JC Penny's two weeks prior? How can you compare the two?

ASA was paying the exact same thing (more or less) when I left 6 years ago.. it's sad to see that nothing has improved in this industry, even the fortunes of the "commuters" which were growing like gangbusters have been minimal.

 

[Tomct]

1st year pay will go up in the next contract, exactly how much is up for grabs. I would expect a single rate jet FO scale similar to that of SKW, current book on the CR7 with a bump for CR2/ATR cpt. I just hope it is a nice size bump...

Man, I can't believe that you THINK..."dare I say"...that the CR7 is going to stay the same! You are definately full of CRAP! As soon as we sign the new deal, they are going to be dumping the 50's as fast as they can. When are you going to get that through your little head! The 70 rates are VERY IMPORTANT!! Wake UP Jr!

 

[AV8700]

Man, I can't believe that you THINK..."dare I say"...that the CR7 is going to stay the same! You are definately full of CRAP! As soon as we sign the new deal, they are going to be dumping the 50's as fast as they can. When are you going to get that through your little head! The 70 rates are VERY IMPORTANT!! Wake UP Jr!

Ditto

 

[John Pennekamp]

It really just hit me hard how sad the pay scales are for 1 - 2 year airline employees.

At ASA for example: If a first year FO ($19.02/hr) is flying with a 2nd year Flight Attendant(s) ($19.75/hour) the pecking order is essentially:

1. Captain
2. Flight Attendant
3. First Officer

We need fair contracts across the industry! NOW!!! :angryfire

Why should he? He paid upwards of $100K and spent 4 years in college, and up to 1000 hours training and taking checkrides, while she may have been selling makeup at JC Penny's two weeks prior? How can you compare the two?

ASA was paying the exact same thing (more or less) when I left 6 years ago.. it's sad to see that nothing has improved in this industry, even the fortunes of the "commuters" which were growing like gangbusters have been minimal.

Yes, you need to get over yourselves. Your FA flies the same crappy trips you do for a lot less money in the long run. She/He also has to put up with a lot more B.S.

ASA FA pay scale:
1st 6 months: $15.50 per hour (70 hr guarantee on reserve) =$13,020/year
2nd 6 Months: $17.25 (70 hour guar. on reserve) =$14,490/year
2nd Year : $19.75 (75 hour guar. if lineholder) =$17,775/year
3rd Year: $21.25
4th Year: $22.50
5th Year: $24.00
6th Year: $25.25
7th Year: $26.00
8th Year: $26.75
9th Year: $27.50
10th Year: $28.25
15th Year (max): $29.50 =$26,550/year

ASA CRJ-200/ATR FO:
1st year: $19.02 (75 hour guarantee) =$17,118/year
2nd year: $33.65 =$30,285/year
3rd year: $34.67
4th year: $35.70
5th year: $36.77
6th year: $37.88
7th year (max): $38.63 =$34,767/year

ASA CRJ-200/ATR Captain (upgrade is ~6 years)
6th year: $63.13 (75 hour guarantee) =$56,817/year
7th year: $64.39
8th year: $66.32
9th year: $68.31
10th year: $70.36
15th year (max): $81.57 =$73,413/year

 

[av8er2]

To sum it up:

The pay is a joke for any of us.

The industry is set up to keep us all under-paid for many years to come. There will always be the people willing to pay for this job.

I don't like it and I will get out at some point or move on to a better airline.

 

[scott hall]

C'mon, people, let's focus on the Vision.

 

[HA25]

Yes, you need to get over yourselves. Your FA flies the same crappy trips you do for a lot less money in the long run. She/He also has to put up with a lot more B.S.

ASA FA pay scale:
1st 6 months: $15.50 per hour (70 hr guarantee on reserve) =$13,020/year
2nd 6 Months: $17.25 (70 hour guar. on reserve) =$14,490/year
2nd Year : $19.75 (75 hour guar. if lineholder) =$17,775/year
3rd Year: $21.25
4th Year: $22.50
5th Year: $24.00
6th Year: $25.25
7th Year: $26.00
8th Year: $26.75
9th Year: $27.50
10th Year: $28.25
15th Year (max): $29.50 =$26,550/year

ASA CRJ-200/ATR FO:
1st year: $19.02 (75 hour guarantee) =$17,118/year
2nd year: $33.65 =$30,285/year
3rd year: $34.67
4th year: $35.70
5th year: $36.77
6th year: $37.88
7th year (max): $38.63 =$34,767/year

ASA CRJ-200/ATR Captain (upgrade is ~6 years)
6th year: $63.13 (75 hour guarantee) =$56,817/year
7th year: $64.39
8th year: $66.32
9th year: $68.31
10th year: $70.36
15th year (max): $81.57 =$73,413/year

Wow! With pilots who can't differentiate between the "worth" of a pilot vs an F/A.. the level of training, scrutiny, dedication, and skill involved in the one job is an order of magnitude greater than the other. If you can't see that, then you're likely one of the reasons commuter airlines can get away with paying so poorly. Even their own pilots think their paid well..

 

[John Pennekamp]

Wow! With pilots who can't differentiate between the "worth" of a pilot vs an F/A.. the level of training, scrutiny, dedication, and skill involved in the one job is an order of magnitude greater than the other. If you can't see that, then you're likely one of the reasons commuter airlines can get away with paying so poorly. Even their own pilots think their paid well..

Weak rebuttal.

I never said we're paid well. I told the you all to get over yourselves about how it isn't "fair" a 2nd year FA makes more than a 1st year pilot. You're comparing apples to oranges.

If you're flying for an airline carrying passengers, you aren't going anywhere without FAs. If you're not going anywhere, you have no job at all, so yeah, I say they're fairly important, no matter how important you think you are. My point stands.

I think your signature line sums it up. Clearly you're one of those that think it takes some magic feat to get a plane into the air, and the captain can do it all by himself. Egomaniac pilots like you give us all a bad name.

 

[HA25]

Weak rebuttal.

balderdash!

My rebuttle is filled with facts..

fact: Pilots are far more trained, and have a lot more invested in their training than F/A's

fact: F/A's at many airlines are paid 70%+ of what FO's are paid..

fact: F/A's are hired, screened, and trained up from 0 to line holder inside a month

fact: even the lowest form of life pilot hired into a bottom dweller has spent years getting there.

I fly cargo these days, because I don't see a bright future in pax carrying operations. I also like the job better.. it's less hassle and I don't have to deal with self important "We're here primarily for your safety" F/A's.. so you've got one thing right about me.. I do think they're over paid, and over unionized.. I think that the over unionization of F/A's, Gate agents, rampers, and other "support" personal at airlines has taken a big bite out of the compensation of the true professionals, the pilots and the mechanics.. both of whom are Licensed, and highly trained.. The labor pie is only so big.. the day when a "Stewerdess" worked a few years and move on with her life are gone, and now we've got the hags of the sky, with their powerful unions, and their self important attitudes that have bled into the FAR's, the politics of labor at the airlines, and the minds of some pilots (like yourself).

I'm not going to get over myself.. no, quite the contrary, you need to take more pride in your self, and the worth of your profession.

Your point about my not having a job if the F/A isn't onboard is what I would call a weak argument.. I mean, I couldn't take off without a dispatch release either.. so does that make the piece of paper it's printed on somehow worth anything? The Dispatcher and the data is what matters.. and a piece of paper that is legally required to be on the plane is just a piece of paper.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Weak rebuttal.

I never said we're paid well. I told the you all to get over yourselves about how it isn't "fair" a 2nd year FA makes more than a 1st year pilot. You're comparing apples to oranges.

If you're flying for an airline carrying passengers, you aren't going anywhere without FAs. If you're not going anywhere, you have no job at all, so yeah, I say they're fairly important, no matter how important you think you are. My point stands.

I think your signature line sums it up. Clearly you're one of those that think it takes some magic feat to get a plane into the air, and the captain can do it all by himself. Egomaniac pilots like you give us all a bad name.

I see John Peni$kamp is shooting his mouth off again.
I guess opinions really are like a$$holes, every one has one.

 

[Grumman guy]

Commuter pay sucks. Its a damn shame the B.S. people have to go through to get the time and finally get a job, and the responsability you have , and make way less than a UPS driver, or Manager at Burger king.

Like my dad said though, you will never make any money doing something that people do for a hobby.

Too bad something cant be done about it.

My hats off to you guys, you really got to have the love

 

[wolfpackpilot]

15th year (max): $81.57 =$73,413/year

Wow, I made more than that my 1st year as an FO in the Gulfstream. Thats really sad.

 

[HA25]

Heck, 2nd year SO pay at Gemini under their totally lame re-negotiated BK contract is like 6th year 50 seat RJ Cap.. that's not right.

 

[Crash Pad]

How about this. Next year all the majors are going to be hiring. Guess what a lot of people will not leave ASA.

The paycut would kill me, I don't have my logbook up to date, I'm finally holding a line, I don't want to do training, I didn't apply because I don't know anyone over at XYZ, I'm 35 so it doesn't make much sense for me to switch... That is a small sample of the BS I hear on line.

You don't like the pay then leave.... If you are still at ASA as a captain in 08' it's because the pay rate is more than enough to keep you happy. Put up or shut up in 07'

 

[ASARJMan]

C'mon, people, let's focus on the Vision.

Like where you and Gary gross are violating our CURRENT contract again Scotty? Now you and Gross are saying that relief lines are actually reserve lines. You both need canned, especially Gross! We'll see what happens to this one at the expedited grievance hearing scheduled for early January!

ASA Middle Management-But we'll 'honor' the next contract boys!

 

[HA25]

Like where you and Gary gross are violating our CURRENT contract again Scotty? Now you and Gross are saying that relief lines are actually reserve lines. You both need canned, especially Gross! We'll see what happens to this one at the expedited grievance hearing scheduled for early January!

ASA Middle Management-But we'll 'honor' the next contract boys!

Is that chump "Scott Hall" really the DO at ASA? or is it some kid playing around? I can't tell...

 

[av8tor4239]

forget about alpa for a second....the real problem, in my opinion, is the hoards of people willing to pay upwards of $100k (most of them financing it all at astronomical interest rates) to get the job paying $19hr. Its just a new form of PFT.

How the hell did you become a pilot... Oh yeah.. you were born with it.., wait a minute.. didn't you pay TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS TO GET A JOB WITH ASA..... After you paid how many thousands of dollars for you education, or lack there of....

Freaking IDIOT

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Weak rebuttal.

If you're flying for an airline carrying passengers, you aren't going anywhere without FAs. If you're not going anywhere, you have no job at all, so yeah, I say they're fairly important, no matter how important you think you are. My point stands.

Wrong. Beech 1900s have no FA. Get your facts together. I thought you need an ATP to be a captain?

 

[ohplease!]

How the hell did you become a pilot... Oh yeah.. you were born with it.., wait a minute.. didn't you pay TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS TO GET A JOB WITH ASA..... After you paid how many thousands of dollars for you education, or lack there of....

Freaking IDIOT

Never mind....