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A Race to the BOTTOM...

jester757

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Huh?
Does anyone else feel like the CEOs are each trying to see who can stick it to the pilots the worst? For years the must have dreamed of an enviorment where they could smash unions and get the "over paid bus drivers" to work for half of what they used to.

AND if you think that this will not happen at your airline ("but we make money...") think again. For example: Take Delta / Airtran....DAL managment has proposed (soon to impose) a payrate for 100 seat jet - 12 year Capt = $88hr and 12 year FO =$44 hr. That is some low pay...how low you ask? Well compared to an Airtran Capt who makes roughly $153 hr on roughly a 100 seat jet that is a rate 43% LESS than 'tran's rate. Why do you think that AT's CEO "Joe" has gone on record as saying he will not negotiate a pay rate with his pilots until he sees what rates Delta is flying for? Why? Because he is going to come at the Airtran guys saying "DAL is flying for this, we need to beat them...blah, blah, blah" ie, ATs guys will be facing a 40+ percent paycut in the future. Same is going to come true all over the place. The bar has been placed low, now all airlines feel they need to lower theirs to compete. Just wait and see how these rates trickle down to the commuters!

For years I heard pilots saying "I'd fly it for less...." Well, now here is your chance. Where this ride stops....nobody knows.
 

jbDC9

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jester757 said:
A Race to the BOTTOM...
Yeah, there's my favorite overused catchphrase! Who's next with "Lowering the bar"?
 
B

BR549

jester757 said:
Does anyone else feel like the CEOs are each trying to see who can stick it to the pilots the worst? For years the must have dreamed of an enviorment where they could smash unions and get the "over paid bus drivers" to work for half of what they used to.

AND if you think that this will not happen at your airline ("but we make money...") think again. For example: Take Delta / Airtran....DAL managment has proposed (soon to impose) a payrate for 100 seat jet - 12 year Capt = $88hr and 12 year FO =$44 hr. That is some low pay...how low you ask? Well compared to an Airtran Capt who makes roughly $153 hr on roughly a 100 seat jet that is a rate 43% LESS than 'tran's rate. Why do you think that AT's CEO "Joe" has gone on record as saying he will not negotiate a pay rate with his pilots until he sees what rates Delta is flying for? Why? Because he is going to come at the Airtran guys saying "DAL is flying for this, we need to beat them...blah, blah, blah" ie, ATs guys will be facing a 40+ percent paycut in the future. Same is going to come true all over the place. The bar has been placed low, now all airlines feel they need to lower theirs to compete. Just wait and see how these rates trickle down to the commuters!

For years I heard pilots saying "I'd fly it for less...." Well, now here is your chance. Where this ride stops....nobody knows.

Poor, poor Ty Webb.
 

General Lee

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A lot
Well, we will negotiate that low rate, and right now they are looking at the USAir/AWA rate on the E190 and it is a tad bit higher. Still, it is too low for a 100 seater, but somebody's management started this by installing a rate as the new benchmark, and everyone else will have to try to copy it to "stay competitive......" I wonder why they don't do the same with executive compensation packages?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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Ty Webb

Hostage to Fortune
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BR549 said:
Poor, poor Ty Webb.
Your info is wrong. AirTran management has presented our union with a proposed contract. The hourly pay rates are higher, not lower.

But don't cry for me, Chief. I will not be doing this job for less than I am making right now, and I don't think my co-workers will, either, frrom what I've been hearing on the line.

Apparently, our management knows this, too.
 
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Clyde

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Ty Webb said:
Your info is wrong. AirTran management has presented our union with a proposed contract. The hourly pay rates are higher, not lower.

But don't cry for me, Chief. I will not be doing this job for less than I am making right now, and I don't think my co-workers will, either, frrom what I've been hearing on the line.

Apparently, our management knows this, too.
If your contract proposal is less than desireable, are you guys thinking about a strike?
 

Publishers

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Clyde, the basic fact is that no airline in the United States can really stand any kind of strike other than a situation like the Northwest mechanics who decided that reality had no place in their workplace.
 

AA717driver

A simpler time...
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Ty--You are lying to yourself. Two of the most radical union groups in the airline business have taken voluntary pay cuts to try to save their jobs.

You may not vote to do the same but I guarantee you your co-workers will. We have yet to have a pilot group draw a line in the sand and stick to it.TC
 

jester757

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Huh?
Ty Webb said:
Your info is wrong. AirTran management has presented our union with a proposed contract. The hourly pay rates are higher, not lower.

But don't cry for me, Chief. I will not be doing this job for less than I am making right now, and I don't think my co-workers will, either, frrom what I've been hearing on the line.

Apparently, our management knows this, too.
Are we talking about the same CEO at Airtran. There is NO way he is going to agree to any pay raises I promise you. This guy is the bigest penny picher out there. He is on record as saying "no deal" until he sees what DAL is going to fly for. Why do you ask? (If you really asked yourself this question, then you might as well just stay in your "happy place" for now) Becuase how can you be a LCC when you are paying your pilots 40% more?? Answer: You can't...for long anyhow.

As far as not doing it for less - while I admire you stance we all know there are those out there who will. Read the message board for the Regional guys...they are all bitching about Mesa / CHQ "taking" their flying becuase they will work for less. Kind of funny (well not really) that they are experiencing the same thing the Majors did when the commuter started flying 70+ seaters. Now you have LCC getting it from the Legacy carriers who are being FORCED to fly for low wages (key word there - FORCED) The Legacy guys had the pay rates you could only dream about but got pulled down by the LCC volunteered payrates. Now it the LCCs turn to get drug down...it does not feel very good, does it?
 

Birdstrike

Atlantic City
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Ike
AA717driver said:
Ty--You are lying to yourself. Two of the most radical union groups in the airline business have taken voluntary pay cuts to try to save their jobs.

You may not vote to do the same but I guarantee you your co-workers will. We have yet to have a pilot group draw a line in the sand and stick to it.TC
Not to mention the four letter word describing those who would be more than willing to replace you for whatever wages management chooses to pay. Unfortunately, management knows this too.
 
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