A couple of MESABA questions...

[BizPilot]

How is seniority within your new hire class determined?

What are the chances of being based in MSP vs. DTW?

What does hiring through 2005 look like?

THANKS

 

[fly4ever]

Seniority is determined by age - oldest=most senior in the class

DTW before MSP, MSP possibly but those spots are probably filling up by now unless some senior FOs decide to upgrade with the next couple of vacancies.

Hiring for 2005 - classes of 10-15 expected through April due to attrition only. That is as far as the company will project for now but hopefully the attrition will continue. We haven't had a new airplane in five years and don't expect any in the foreseeable future.

DISCLAIMER: We're talking airline industry here - everything is subject to change

Hope this helps

 

[Mesabi Miner]

1. By age. The oldest new hire is the most senior and the youngest, most junior.

2. Tough at first. Most junior base for FO's is MEM I think, and DTW is second. Although, lots of new hires being seen in the DTW crew room. Not sure how long it takes to get to MSP now that we have so little vertical movement.

3. Pretty good for the first few months anyway. We've lost quite a few Captains to Southwest, America West, Airtran and Jet Blue. (A few FO's as well!) Class sizes are relatively small, (10 or less I think) and there's no telling how long they will continue to hire. We are not growing and in fact are still losing flying to Pinnacle. God bless being dependent on NWA.

MM

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Beat me! Glad to see my answers weren't too far off!

MM

 

[OrphicSeth]

How's morale?

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Welp, a year after the contract has been signed, there's very little management bad-mouthing going on in the crew rooms. We are all content that our leaders weren't in the gifted program in grade school and there's little we can do to change things at the top. Many FO's are looking to bail out, captains are for the most part content on accumulating PIC until SWA calls, but all in all, it's quiet. Quite a bit of airplane swapping going on just trying to beat the boredom. The 24 month seat lock is not really a factor for obvious reasons. The biggest stink now revolves around the "third airlink" that threatens our careers at Mesaba. Many pilots have switched from their ALPA lanyards back to the Mesaba lanyards because they're disgusted at the farse that is "NWA Brands" watching out for each other. Many of us feel betrayed and banned to eternal "FO-dom." Yes, we are working. Yes, most FO's approached 45K this year, but to see 3000 hour 9E people getting upgraded with minimal time at the company is very frustrating for our 5000, and 6000 hour FOs.

MM

 

[fly4ever]

MM,

I would hope we're both wrong on that last question but in a positive direction.

Orphic,

Morals and Morale are at an all time low,

just kiddin'

 

[fly4ever]

MM,

You nailed it in your last post. The frustration is towards both the company and our representation at this point. I know we have it better than several other airlines flying our size equipment though so I keep reminding myself that it could be a lot worse.

 

[SYXDude]

Just out of curiosity, what is per diem at Mesaba? How long is training and do newhires get guarantee during training? Are pilots truly sitting reserve for more than 2 years?

 

[OrphicSeth]

Thanks guys, appreciated.

 

[fly4ever]

No problem Orphic but since you edited your post my laugh line sucks!

SYXdude,
Per diem is $1.45 should increase by a nickel in a another month (I think)

Training is approx. 2 months with monthly guarantee(75 hrs) from day one, also single occupancy hotel room is covered by the company per contract and you get your company ID as well so you can jumpseat and pass ride from day one.

Those of us that have been here for four years are FOs and have sat reserve for the last three(after 9/11). We're just now getting used to having more than the minimum days off. Junior captains have also sat reserve for a long time. However, newhires from the first class in 04 (Feb 04) are fortunate to have at least some trips on what we call a build-up line (part scheduled, part reserve) unless they want to fly a high-speed line also known as "illegals", CDOs, "standups" etc... High-speed lines are built with the minimum 11 days off. Some people like them, most don't.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Per diem... This month (DOS +1) we get bumped to $1.50/hour. New hires get 75 flight-pay hours per month during training. Hotel paid by company as well. ID badge too. I'm really out of the loop in terms of the length of initial training. For me, almost five years ago, it took 2.5 months. Now, with the good training facility we have, I think it's shorter than that. Unfortunately, we do have many people that have and are still sitting reserve after 2-3+ years... Yuck! Hope this helps.

MM

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Incidentally, new hires this month (DOS+1) start at $23.54/hr if you're interested.

MM

 

[AJL5236]

If you were in the search for a regional job, would you apply to Mesaba? Or would you look elsewhere?

 

[T-handle]

Reserve length is dependent upon where you are based. MSP is the most senior for Saab and Avro. Moving up the domicile food chain is the slowest in MSP and that's where you will see the 3-4 year FO reserves. MEM or DTW is your most likely new hire base and the more junior bases. You can probably get a regular line or at least a highspeed or buildup line quicker in MEM or DTW. CVG (Avro) is kinda in the middle, maybe leaning towards the junior side for FOs.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Is there an echo in here? Fly4ever, you're quick on the keyboard.

AJL, while you're searching, keep Mesaba in mind. **IF** we are awarded growth by NWA, I believe we will be the place to be. We really are a good, (but shrinking) company... Personally, if I were looking right NOW, I'd go to ExpressJet. New contract, lots of growth going to happen... Don't know about any others.

MM

 

[Mel Sharples]

If you were in the search for a regional job, would you apply to Mesaba? Or would you look elsewhere?

Mesaba is a great company to work for. Benefits are good and the employees rock. Now with that said, growth is questionable because we are at the mercy of NWA. As far as a forecast I can't tell you much. BUT... you are hired on day one which means you can jumpseat on day 1 and you get paid starting day one. You also get your own hotel room paid through training so it is a nice place to start.

As far as hiring goes, we are hiring A LOT. Allegedly due to attrition, although I can't believe that will go on for too much longer. They did just hire three or four more Saab sim instructors which leads me to believe training will go on for some time. With the length of time it takes to get a sim instructor trained, training would have to go at least 2-3 more months just to break even. And B.R. won't hire any extra instructors unless it is absolutely necessary.

I won't say it is the best by far or has the best potential, but it is a great place to work with good benefits and all the potential in the world to grow like a weed. I guess we will see...

 

[SYXDude]

Fly4ever, Mesabi Miner, T-Handle, and Mel -

Thanks for the info. Appreciate all of your help.

 

[fly4ever]

MM,

I've had nothing but time to sharpen my keyboarding skills. Gotta get ready for that FMS and Acars in the Saab - oh wait - wrong plane. Don't tell me I've been wasting my time practicing!

Oh well, guess I'll give it another 4 years and see what happens here at XJ.

Fly

Dueling keyboards - the new way to fly high at XJ!

 

[Glacialfury1906]

45k???

Yes, most FO's approached 45K this year, but to see 3000 hour 9E people getting upgraded with minimal time at the company is very frustrating for our 5000, and 6000 hour FOs.

MM

Miner or any other informed XJ pilot,
Is this a misprint? Do most of the FO's at Mesaba really get close to 45K? D@mn a single guy with no kids or debt could almost live off of that. Is that base pay alone? Thanks for the replies......

 

[Mel Sharples]

Miner or any other informed XJ pilot,
Is this a misprint? Do most of the FO's at Mesaba really get close to 45K? D@mn a single guy with no kids or debt could almost live off of that. Is that base pay alone? Thanks for the replies......

No, no, no.... I think MM was being a little too optimistic.

Some F/O's make 45k? Maybe.

Most? He11 no.

Even with per diem, an F/O is hard pressed to make that kind of scratch. Below are the pay rates for this year. Guarantee is 75 hours and average is probably somewhere near the low to mid 90's.

Years Pay

0-1 23.08

1-2 27.67

2-3 30.38

3-4 33.09

4-5 34.08

5-6 35.10

6-7 36.15

7-8 37.24

 

[Mesabi Miner]

About FO pay... Perhaps "most" is a little optimistic. "Some" is a better approximation, but due to the fact that lots of FOs are now making $34+/hr, it's easier to begin making a livable wage. My 45K number was based on my situation, (4.5 years) flying about 90 or so a month last year, picking up an OCCASIONAL trip for premium pay, AND*** the retro-check. Without the retro check last year, I would have to make the number about 42K. In 2005, I'm shooting for 42-45K. Hope this clears up that number.

MM

 

[Mel Sharples]

About FO pay... Perhaps "most" is a little optimistic. "Some" is a better approximation, but due to the fact that lots of FOs are now making $34+/hr, it's easier to begin making a livable wage. My 45K number was based on my situation, (4.5 years) flying about 90 or so a month last year, picking up an OCCASIONAL trip for premium pay, AND*** the retro-check. Without the retro check last year, I would have to make the number about 42K. In 2005, I'm shooting for 42-45K. Hope this clears up that number.

MM

MM -

I hope I didn't sound too harsh. I certainly didn't mean to be and re-reading my post it does sound a bit that way. So my apologies for how the message was delievered.

I'm glad you clarified the pay issue. I didn't want prospective pilots to think that was the average F/O pay. Thanks for the update.

Fly safe!

Mel

 

[SYXDude]

So, if a newhire sits reserve, do they fly a lot? Or is it based on their domicile on how much they fly? Can a newhire sit reserve and conceivable fly 90 a month?

I know Skywest makes their reserve pilots fly a lot. They don't like pilots sitting around and getting paid to do nothing.

 

[Mel Sharples]

So, if a newhire sits reserve, do they fly a lot? Or is it based on their domicile on how much they fly? Can a newhire sit reserve and conceivable fly 90 a month?

I know Skywest makes their reserve pilots fly a lot. They don't like pilots sitting around and getting paid to do nothing.

Right now new hires are flying a lot on reserve because we are short on pilots (certain equipment and domiciles). So you can expect to fly a lot.

However, our new contract gave the company the ability to level reserve usage. That means the company can fly you up to 75 hours (guarantee) and then not use you again the rest of the month even if you have a "first out" preference.

I can't tell you exactly but from what I know not too many people on reserve ever get over guarantee let alone 90 hours.

 

[SYXDude]

Thanks Mel.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Mel,

No problem. I see your point not wanting people to think this was "average FO pay." Wouldn't it be nice if it was!? Sweet avatar BTW! You must be good with Paint Shop Pro!

MM

 

[gnx99]

Reserve Saab FO's in MEM are not flying much at all. At least that was the case in December.