A buddy has A.D.D. & wants to fly......?

[Icywings2]

Hi,

A close family friend of mine which is my nephews best friend has watched fly and heard me talk about flying over the years and wants to follow in my foot steps and we have another family member that is a pilot.

Anyway, he is 22 and when he was a kid (I think around 13 or so) he was tested and the school told him he had Attention Deficit Disorder (A.D.D.). He was never treated with any medication and I guess the only record of it is at the school that tested him.

So, now I turn to draw your wisdom on this subject and tell me what to tell him. First, can he even legally do it? It doesn’t affect him, he is not “slow” or anything, in fact, he has a very high IQ and is sharp as a tack, but gets bored on subjects that don’t mean a whole heck of a lot to him. He knows so much about airplanes now and borrows my manuals, books, charts, etc.. to read them all the time. He loves this stuff like we all do, so I want him to do it. We all know what it is like when you have the bug. I took him up a few years ago in a 182 and let him fly for a bit and he was HOOKED to say the least ever since.

His mom is worried that if he gets his license and pursues this thing if he would be safe or not. His father thinks he would be a great pilot with all the attention to detail he will put into something he really enjoys and how much interest there is into it. I have showed him that it isn’t all fun and games and that weather, FARs, how engines work, etc…. can be pretty boring at times. He eats this stuff up like crazy and says if it has anything to do with flying he loves it.

So, his dad asked me to ask around to see if there is any literature showing that this is okay (FAA) and that it won’t affect him as far as safety goes so that he can sell it to his wife. I personally think it wouldn’t affect him at all in the cockpit. Hell, I think we ALL have a little A.D.D. in us.

Well if you all can help me out with helping his father fight the case with his wife to let their son fly. I would appreciate it. THANKS!

 

[NuGuy]

Hi Icy,

I don't profess to really know anything about this, but try this link out:

http://www.aviationmedicine.com/meds.htm#ada

They seem to have alot of answers to a lot of stuff.

Best,
Nu

 

[RegionalFA]

at 22 he needs mommy and daddy's permission to do something he loves? That concerns me more than potential ADD.


I wish him luck.

 

[Icywings2]

at 22 , he needs his parents to pay for it, so yes they need to agree to spend that much money. It isn't about mommy and daddy giving permission. Why do people alwyas try to be a smart a$$? I swear, on EVERY thread someone has to be sarcastic.

 

[Dizel8]

I was going to say something, but I got distracted....................
What were we talking about again??


Seriously, wish him best of luck from me, I hope he gets cleared by the AME.

 

[Rabid Washcloth]

gets bored on subjects that don’t mean a whole heck of a lot to him

Then label me A.D.D.

They've been handing that diagnosis out like candy in the past ten years. Twenty years ago they just said you were hyperactive and gave you an "Unsatisfactory" in conduct.

Unless he's done so since graduating high school, tell him to get reevaluated. At least get some kind of a job in the meantime that requires competency and proves his ability to focus.

 

[RegionalFA]

at 22 , he needs his parents to pay for it, so yes they need to agree to spend that much money. It isn't about mommy and daddy giving permission. Why do people alwyas try to be a smart a$$? I swear, on EVERY thread someone has to be sarcastic.

at 22 i wish my mommy and daddy had paid for everything I wanted.

seriously.


by 22 I'd moved across the country and paid for two years of school for a grand total of $34k.

If he wants it as bad as stated, he'd make it happen. Once his parents saw how serious he was, either they'd support his decision or not. My guess is that mom would be easier swayed by that than a bunch of info from people that don't know him. He didn't say that the mom needed proof that it was legal... if that was all, cake. He said he needed proof that it was safe. Well, mom, you know your son... is it safe?

I guess being a pilot costs a lot of money... most pilots must have parents that support them... i've read a lot of "keep the car mommy and daddy bought you in high school and that'll asave you money on car paments" and "mommy and daddy put so and so through school."

Not everyone is so coddled and some of us realize that if you want something to happen, there are ways to do it.


If he wants it bad enough and is responsible enough to handle the job, he should be able to make it happen. I wouldn't let my mom's insecurities keep me from living my dreams.

but, that's just my take. No sarcasm.

 

[d.fitz]

Dizel

...you beat me to it!.....

Classic!

 

[Rabid Washcloth]

Dizel

Now I'm distracted.

What were you saying...about...fluffy pillows...I...can't...seem...to...take my eyes off of those breasts.

 

[Smacktard]

Spend a $100 and have him get a first class medical. If he gets it he can fly, if he can't, he can still fly but not 121.

 

[Northern Lights]

It doesn’t affect him, he is not “slow” or anything, in fact, he has a very high IQ and is sharp as a tack

He knows so much about airplanes now and borrows my manuals, books, charts, etc.. to read them all the time. He loves this stuff like we all do

Sounds like he should go for it. If he can make it through his intrument rating without to many problems he'll probably be able to go all the way.

Does he have any learning disablities? I think that a LD would be more of an issue than ADD. I had a friend drop out of flying because of his learning problems.

 

[Icywings2]

Nothing other then the ADD. I think that if you can keep your First Class Medical and do the Instrument you are fine as well. How can I help prove to his mom that he would be safe? Any thoughts?
Thanks again!

 

[Rabid Washcloth]

Tie her up and throw her in an airplane with him for a transcon.

 

[Northern Lights]

. How can I help prove to his mom that he would be safe? Any thoughts?

I think that the only way to prove it is have him at least start working on his private pilot. Find a good flight school with a experienced instructor to work with. A good CFI won't sugar coat things. If he has serious problems with flying, he needs to know about it.

I once had to sit a guy down and ask him if he really wanted to be a pilot. I was his 4th instructor, he had about 50 hours, and there was no way I was going to let him solo. He couldn't even find the airport from the practice area, yet he wanted to start doing cross countries. But in his case I belive that it was more of a learning disability than an ADD problem.

 

[wannabe22]

If the guy can get a medical (first class) he shouldn't have any problems. The FAA may need some info on it when he goes for his medical but if he can get a clearance for the first class he won't have a problem. If you have any other questions, pm me and I can give you some more info. Take care and tell him good luck.

 

[falcondriver]

I buddy of mine has ADD and takes medication for it and has a 1st class medical and a handle full of type's. I would say go get the medical and go gor it.
FD

 

[Batman Fan]

I'm certified with every learning disability there is. I'm a Jet FO with an upgrade comming within the next few months. No problem unless you let it be one.

 

[Batman Fan]

In fact I don't think anyone can tell I have any learning problems unless they check my spelling. I don't think ADD, dsylexisa, or anything else should be a reason to stay out of the flight deck. I heard about a guy who had a Private Pilot Certificate and could not use his legs. A wheelchair could not stop that guy.

 

[TonyC]

If the guy can get a medical (first class) he shouldn't have any problems. The FAA may need some info on it when he goes for his medical but if he can get a clearance for the first class he won't have a problem.

I wish I had a medical application form in front of me so I could see if there's even a place where he would report it, given that he takes no meds for it.

Given that the condition is not so severe as to require medication, and given that he has graduated from high school (I'm assuming) I'd say that the ADD might even be an advantage. Sounds like a strong interest has driven him to study quite a bit already. It's OK, Dad, he'll do just fine.

 

[Neolight77]

My husband had ADD as a kid. He was diagnosed at 13 and prescribed a medication called "CYLERT" for it. By 18 he no longer needed the medication and has gone from someone who couldn't pay attention to a Captain with multiple degrees. Something about Cylert (as opposed to that awful Ritalin) is that it helps you learn to concentrate. Once your mind "learns" to focus you don't need the medication any more.

Your friend may consider that as an option for a few years before learning to fly. AMEs won't let you fly with that medication--you have to quit before you start in aviation.

It can definitely be done, and ADD is a real condition. It's just tremendously over-diagnosed.

 

[Longhorn]

I agree with smacktard, have him take the faa medical to see if he passes. Hey speaking of, i took a writen exam for recurrent last week and passed. I thought it was tough, kinda like some of my math classes in school, which happens to be in california where that movie actor is the fearless leader. I thought he was great in most of the movies that I saw him in but could have done better if he more options to choose from like in the store. I mean you can go from isle to isle looking for a certain brand of food and all you see is different brands. Its so hard to find what you are looking for in the store unless you really know what you are looking for. I went to the store last night and got a ticket for speeding, the cop asked where I was going and I told the store. he let me off with a simple ticket that should not cost that much. I have to go to court next month to fight it.

uhhh...what was I talking about

 

[350DRIVER]

Icy,

Excuse the sarcasm from some, I would surely tell them to be positive and speak with a ame. I do not think safety would be a factor- surely tell him not to give up on the dream.

3 5 0

ps> who the he!! cares what you did at what age? I am 25 so do I get a cookie for what I have done thus far? I thought so...

 

[LongBoarder]

He should have ADD

I dont know a 22 yo red blooded american who does not have ADD, not to mention someone who wants to be a pilot. One might argue that we are all a little ADD, OCD, TRU, MPI, TBO, DAS... and so on.


LB

 

[livinadream]

Hey man
your friend has got to go for it......sounds li






wow, I saw flashing lites



sounds like its his calling. I have a buddy who got tested twice, he flys for the friendly skys if ya know what I mean. Everybody got a little ADD in them. They also say 6 out 5 pilots are dislexic (is that how ya spell it?)

 

[spinproof]

...well since flying is generally described as an "endless aray of bordom puncuated by a short period of stark terrror" would this be a healthy pursuit by one with Adult Attention Deficit Disorder?

NO!

....but then again ATC would be the place to go!!!!

 

[wms]

If it does disqualify him for flying, it's a requirement for management. Not being able to focus on an objective and changing course mid-stream for no good reason are mgmts best qualities.

 

[ms6073]

Anyway, he is 22 and when he was a kid (I think around 13 or so) he was tested and the school told him he had Attention Deficit Disorder (A.D.D.). He was never treated with any medication and I guess the only record of it is at the school that tested him.

I would think that the answer to the orginal question is easily found under part 67 of the FAR's:

Section 67.107: Mental

Mental standards for a first-class airman medical certificate are:

(a) No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:

(1) A personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts.

(2) A psychosis. As used in this section, "psychosis" refers to a mental disorder in which:

(i) The individual has manifested delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of this condition; or

(ii) The individual may reasonably be expected to manifest delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of this condition.

(3) A bipolar disorder.

(4) Substance dependence, except where there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years.

Section 67.109: Neurologic.
Neurologic standards for a first-class airman medical certificate are:

(a) No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:

(1) Epilepsy;

(2) A disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause; or

(3) A transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause.

(b) No other seizure disorder, disturbance of consciousness, or neurologic condition that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, finds --

(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.


I think the guy should go for it as well. I did not read in the original post of there being any additional "clinical" or otherwise "official" diagnosis since the time that the person in in question in the original post turned 18. If there has not been a need for additional treatment or further clinical intervention since this person turned 18 (much less since he was 13), then I do not see any reason to even report this on the inital application for medical certification. On the other hand, if this is a problem that manifests itself in such a manner as to pose a hazard during flying, seems to me that it would easily be discovered during the flight training process!

 

[Ty Webb]

Don't send the guy to get a First Class!

Are you guys nuts?

The first thing the guy should do is get an evaluation from a NON-AME. Find out if he even has this disorder! There's probably a good chance that he doesn't even have it . . . and if he does, he will be talking to someone who specializes in this disorder.

If he goes to an AME and says he has a history of some disorder, the AME may or may not be qualified to determine if he has it, but if he goes and self-reports that he has some condition based upon some evaluation ten years ago, he will have opened up a can of worms and left a paper trail that may be very difficult to fix later.


My advice would be to go to a specialist first, get cleared, THEN go to an AME.

 

[TanJMcAdams]

I thought all pilots had ADD. A little ADD is a requirement so you don't get fixated on an emergency.

 

[Ace757]

There was a girl at my school that had ADD when she was young, took medication for it, but she has been off of it since she was 12. She was denied a medical from the AME. To get her medical she had to appeal to the FAA, and have some FAA Dr. run a whole bunch of tests on her. They found that she didn't have ADD, and they then issued her a medical.