A-320 ETOPs ? VA yesterday

[Dan Roman]

I did not buy a 737 type. I would not buy a type. Some of us got it elsewhere. I did not work for SWA in the 90's when their rates were low and unacceptable. I spoke with a VA captain one night. He was at least honest about the pay at VA (unlike the other posters here) and how bad it is. I make double what he makes and I'm a FO. Now the complete idiots will say "that's because you work at SWA". This would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous. SWA pay should never be the highest. We fly a FLUF around the US only. The contract we have now should be industry average. Delta, United, American, and even US Airways should be making more. But....these morons are actually defending their lowest A319/320 pay in the industry. How about fighting to increase/improve pay and benefits for the pilot profession? How about admiting that fact and standing up against it? If only the VA kids could learn from the professional pilots at Spirit. But no.....as long as these guys can "fly" an airbus then nothing else matters.

You do realize your bashing the VA guys for doing just what all the Captains you fly with did, right? They worked for less than everyone else when SWA was a lot more mature airline than VA is now.

 

[NEDude]

You do realize your bashing the VA guys for doing just what all the Captains you fly with did, right? They worked for less than everyone else when SWA was a lot more mature airline than VA is now.

The vast majority of the "kids" you refer to came from TWA, ATA, Aloha, Midwest, DHL/Astar, ABX, USAirways, United. Very few "kids" itching for the chance to fly a "big plane", more like very experienced guys who have had rotten luck.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good rant.

 

[The Victors]

You do realize your bashing the VA guys for doing just what all the Captains you fly with did, right? They worked for less than everyone else when SWA was a lot more mature airline than VA is now.

and that makes it ok? To happily work for less than your peers?

 

[The Victors]

The vast majority of the "kids" you refer to came from TWA, ATA, Aloha, Midwest, DHL/Astar, ABX, USAirways, United. Very few "kids" itching for the chance to fly a "big plane", more like very experienced guys who have had rotten luck.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good rant.

well hopefully those guys will effect some change!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I did not buy a 737 type. I would not buy a type. Some of us got it elsewhere. I did not work for SWA in the 90's when their rates were low and unacceptable. I spoke with a VA captain one night. He was at least honest about the pay at VA (unlike the other posters here) and how bad it is. I make double what he makes and I'm a FO. Now the complete idiots will say "that's because you work at SWA". This would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous. SWA pay should never be the highest. We fly a FLUF around the US only. The contract we have now should be industry average. Delta, United, American, and even US Airways should be making more. But....these morons are actually defending their lowest A319/320 pay in the industry. How about fighting to increase/improve pay and benefits for the pilot profession? How about admiting that fact and standing up against it? If only the VA kids could learn from the professional pilots at Spirit. But no.....as long as these guys can "fly" an airbus then nothing else matters.

You are an odd and funny little guy.

I am intrigued by the variety of subjects upon which you choose to join the fray and provide your hyperbolic rants that ignore logic, reason, and reality. Your sentence and paragraph structure are atrocious and somewhat hard to read. However, it is fun to imagine you blathering away at your keyboard as you attempt to cobble together some sort of cogent argument the point of which is difficult to determine. Obviously, you have some very strong feelings that need to expressed here in the ether of the interwebs and I am glad you have found this creative outlet.

Again, you are an odd little fellow, but I enjoy your meaningless missives.

 

[Dan Roman]

The vast majority of the "kids" you refer to came from TWA, ATA, Aloha, Midwest, DHL/Astar, ABX, USAirways, United. Very few "kids" itching for the chance to fly a "big plane", more like very experienced guys who have had rotten luck.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good rant.

You posted your response to the wrong person. I never referred to any of the VA pilot's as "kids" or anything less than any other pilot group. I'm the one who says it's beyond belief that a SWA pilot could rag on a VA pilot for "undercutting" pilot wages and bringing down the industry.

Your point that they are, in fact, pilots from all kinds of backgrounds is spot on. There was a time when TWA, Aloha, USAir, United, were just as good or better, both in working conditions and job security than SWA is now. They were all weakened by competing with LCC's. In fact, VA probably is as big a threat to SWA as SWA was to TWA, UAL and USAir 20 years ago. It may very well be that in 20 years the victors may be starting over because his airline could no longer compete with the upstarts. Just like the legacies that had to compete with the SWA model. Over simplification I know, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Dan Roman]

and that makes it ok? To happily work for less than your peers?

No, it's the reality of the situation. What's not OK is a SWA pilot to somehow think it was OK for SWA to establish itself with below industry standard wages, but if someone else comes along and does the same thing SWA did, it's wrong?

That exhibits an amazing level of hypocrisy.

We all work for corporations, it's business, not a guarantied career for any of us, unfortunately. Quite a few airlines, and perceived careers, have disappeared through no fault of any of us as individuals. It can happen to any of us. Slamming pilots that have had to start over is classless, doing it while working at an airline that happens to be doing well for now is narcissistic.
No I'm not a SWA basher, but they no longer have the advantages they once had like lower labor costs and fuel hedges that other airlines didn't. They are now going to have to go against the legacies without a cost advantage.
We all live in glass houses.

 

[jayme]

Almost triple from your regional job?? so what....$15,000*3= $45,000?? to program around an A320 is BS and half what you should be making! You're an idiot and a huge part of the problem we face in the pilot profession these days. I am not superior to anyone, but I would never prostitute myself or my profession either just to "fly" something bigger than my RJ.

I'm an idiot? I'll make about $13,000 for March. What the hell makes you think I make $45K/yr?

I should definitely make more, have a better retirement match, better work rules, and discipline/merger protection. But I certainly am not doing this job based on the shinyness nor the bigness of the airplane I fly. Since leaving SkyWest four years ago, I have increased my annual income by nearly $100K. It really shouldn't be this difficult for you to figure out why people are going to VA. Hint: it has nothing to do with trying to help you gain leverage for better pay at your airline.

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm an idiot? I'll make about $13,000 for March. What the hell makes you think I make $45K/yr?

I should definitely make more, have a better retirement match, better work rules, and discipline/merger protection. But I certainly am not doing this job based on the shinyness nor the bigness of the airplane I fly. Since leaving SkyWest four years ago, I have increased my annual income by nearly $100K. It really shouldn't be this difficult for you to figure out why people are going to VA. Hint: it has nothing to do with trying to help you gain leverage for better pay at your airline.

The simple reality is that 15 years ago, most pilots thought SWA was no were near as good as a place to work as the legacies. The reality is VA appears to have a very good product that the traveling public likes. I'm guessing you made a very smart career move and will do fine. I don't wish anyone ill in this industry, and it's amazing the stone throwing that goes on between pilot groups here. Companies compete, not pilots. The ones that see other airlines pilots as the "enemy" are the idiots.

 

[The Victors]

You are an odd and funny little guy.

I am intrigued by the variety of subjects upon which you choose to join the fray and provide your hyperbolic rants that ignore logic, reason, and reality. Your sentence and paragraph structure are atrocious and somewhat hard to read. However, it is fun to imagine you blathering away at your keyboard as you attempt to cobble together some sort of cogent argument the point of which is difficult to determine. Obviously, you have some very strong feelings that need to expressed here in the ether of the interwebs and I am glad you have found this creative outlet.

Again, you are an odd little fellow, but I enjoy your meaningless missives.

Awesome sentence structure.... Bet it really impresses the girls when you attempt to thrash someone with your big vocabulary.