91K Question

[cosmotheassman]

Does the 14 hour duty day restriction apply to you if your last flight of the day is empty going home? (Technically being a 91 flight)


Any help would...help!

 

[MalteseX]

The 14 Hour duty day applies (from my understanding). You are either 91K or 135; the part 91 goes away if you are a fractional.... I asked this of an FAA inspector, but you know, it's like asking the IRS a tax question. You may get a different answer from different guys.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I've been told by the company it doesn't but I think that is simply symantics. The intention of the law is pretty clear. I think that loophole will eventually be closed. A FSDO is the last place I'd call for a clarafication. Maybe OKC but who knows who is on the other end of the phone?

Mr. I.

 

[IFlyOU]

Yup, it's perfectly fine. I've seen this stuff in crew services few times... You can KNOWLINGLY do it if:

a) both PIC and SIC agree to do it
b) the ACP has approved to do it
c) dispatch has approved it

and

d) you bring me leftover crew food

 

[Sctt@NJA]

A reminder to Netjets people---We are not experts on 91k duty rules because we don't use them. We use 135 duty rules for all flights. So we can't extrapolate what we know about how we do things into thinking we know 91k.

I had the same question about the 14hr duty limit that exists in 91k, but so far it seems the question is moot for us as 91k includes a provision to allow the use of 135 duty rules which we take advantage of.

Where this matters for us is mostly with duty extensions that can happen after flying. No one at our company is going to fly an airplane if they aren't legal duty-wise. But with the 91k definition of duty combined with the 91k limit to duty time, if we were 91k it would be illegal for us to land at 13:45 hrs of duty because our duty extends to 30 minutes after our last block-in which would make it a 14:15 minute day... in violation of the FARS! Which is probably a big part of the reason the company opted to use 135 rules.

Also would have been ( I guess) a violation for me last tour where I had a 16:15 hr day due to lack of hotel rooms ect... I wasn't flying, but I was on duty. I think there will have to be clarification on the 91k 14hr duty limit and how it applies to these situations.

Question: Is there any company who actually uses 91k duty rules?

 

[IFlyOU]

A reminder to Netjets people---We are not experts on 91k duty rules because we don't use them. We use 135 duty rules for all flights. So we can't extrapolate what we know about how we do things into thinking we know 91k.

I had the same question about the 14hr duty limit that exists in 91k, but so far it seems the question is moot for us as 91k includes a provision to allow the use of 135 duty rules which we take advantage of.

Where this matters for us is mostly with duty extensions that can happen after flying. No one at our company is going to fly an airplane if they aren't legal duty-wise. But with the 91k definition of duty combined with the 91k limit to duty time, if we were 91k it would be illegal for us to land at 13:45 hrs of duty because our duty extends to 30 minutes after our last block-in which would make it a 14:15 minute day... in violation of the FARS! Which is probably a big part of the reason the company opted to use 135 rules.

Also would have been ( I guess) a violation for me last tour where I had a 16:15 hr day due to lack of hotel rooms ect... I wasn't flying, but I was on duty. I think there will have to be clarification on the 91k 14hr duty limit and how it applies to these situations.

Question: Is there any company who actually uses 91k duty rules?

a lot of times crewmembers will go over 14 for things that are beyond company control (hotel screwed up reservation, MX, WX, delays, etc). NJ keeps 2 data bases on file for this. In CS, we do what is called a 14 hour deviation report, and we are required to notify the ACP. ACP will also file a written report where it will be kept on record for who knows how long. the 10 hours within 24 lookback still applies.

We take crew fatigue very VERY seriously... we also have a tremendous amount of respect for the FAR's. i'd advise you talk to the ACP/PM for further details on this. They'll be glad to help...

 

[Mason]

Does anyone have a ballpark figure as to how many hours per month that you fly. I know that it probably varies based on the aircraft but I just wanted to know if anyone had an "average."

 

[El Chupacabra]

I have flown as little as 360 in a year and as much as 750. I am averaging 500 or so over 6 yrs with 2 calendar months at nearly 100 hours.

 

[I-R-DXR]

the 10 hours within 24 lookback still applies.

The 10in24 applies to the flight rule you are to fly under. If you are flying a part135 (or 91k) flight then 10in24 applies.

There is no 10in24 for Part91 operations (ferry flights).

.

 

[IFlyOU]

The 10in24 applies to the flight rule you are to fly under. If you are flying a part135 (or 91k) flight then 10in24 applies.

There is no 10in24 for Part91 operations (ferry flights).

.

yeah, that's what i meant ... ferry and admin flights don't count...

how could that dude fly across the world?