91 owner job ?'s

[illeagle]

Hi,
I currently fly 135 for a large company that has a new jet online with an owner. The jet will be operated part 91 for the owner and will require 24/7 on call. The owner plans to use it less than 10days a month and the rest of the time it is there in case of an emergency call out of which there could be a couple per month. What questions would you ask if you were offered the job? They are saying no hard days off available, but if something comes up we could cover the jet for you with a contract pilot. It sounds like a lot of downtime at home, need to be 2 hours from the plane in case of an ASAP, zero beers and moderate pay. If anyone has had a similar position or has any info they think would be good to know before accepting such a job, I would love to hear from you. Plane is northeast based, 2 pilots, 75-85K and they'll type me. Thanks.

 

[USC***]

Just my opinion because everyone has different lifestyle demands, but if you have a family and no Hard Day's Off, then it's a tough life.

I might accept the job if the pay was enough where I could do it for a couple years and then retire early, but I wouldn't want to make a career out of such a job.

Some people like this no HDO schdule more than an airline type schedule where you work 18-20 days but know you have hard days. I prefer to work a little more and know that on my HDO, I can take my family on a trip more than 2 hours from the airport or crack a beer if I want.

I had a job like that once and was always nervous when I had work done on my car or did an oil change. My wife worked part time, so when she worked I could watch the kids, but always had to have family or a neighbor that I could drop the kids off with if my work called me for a pop-up trip. It was a hassle.

 

[ultrarunner]

24/7 continuous duty? No days off?

Who's guaranteeing coverage for days off??
Hmmm...

Sounds like a $hit sammy to me. Lets see...owner spends millions on hardware, and wants a couple of guys up front that have a $hit life.

Let me tell ya, down-time at home 'aint down-time at home unless you can crack a cold one!

Owners like that will get what they pay for and get what they deserve.

Good luck

 

[cezzna]

Can you say serf? Or maybe slave is a better word.

Yessa massa! I get da jet ready right now!

Tell them it's three pilots, or some real time off, or good luck! If you aren't worth a day off, you are very expendable.

 

[pilot1704]

You work for EFI

I would say 100k and I can do it!

Get the type, get some time and go fly legacy for someone else!

my 2 cents

 

[B737Dvr]

If you aren't worth a day off, you are very expendable.[/quote]


WOW! Very well said!!!!!

 

[bizjet800]

Doesn't sound very "91" to me. Are you sure it's not a cargo Falcon 20?

 

[futurepizzaguy]

Run Run Run

No days off=zero life. You won't be able to ever make plans for dinner with friends and social functions or watching the game etc etc. no matter how bad the job or how low the pay...EVERYONE needs a few hard days off a month. I agree with earlier response...don't count on the contract guy when you need a day off. No beer either?????
Keep looking around.....75-85 in the NE sounds pretty low to work 30 days a month.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Yeah, zero hard days off SUCKS if you have a family. When are you supposed to go away for a weekend? When are you supposed to have a beer while watching football? What if you're at the grocery store? Eating dinner out? Your car is being worked on?

That is piss poor. Any craphead owner that has no concept whatsoever of their pilots having a life should be shot. You HAVE to have some scheduled time off, otherwise you're going to be staring at your phone every time you're not sitting at the house ready to go with a bag packed. Not a good life IMO. Been there, done that, and screw it. My family is more important to me then pleasing some rich a$$hole. And trust me, if some dude cares that little about his employees or their QOL, then he is an a$$hole and you don't want to work for him.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

My bet would be that the owner did not start this but the management company did. They low-balled the owner on a fee and proceeded to try to take it out of the crew. 24/7 on call means being available, which means you are working. Take the job if it is what you want.

Since you are asking for advice, mine would be:

1) Three pilots
2) Minimum 8 hard days off a month
3) Or 35% above NBAA average salary (still cheaper than the third guy)

The "we will cover days you have to have with a contract pilot" seems all too loose. Get the number of days they will cover with a contract pilot in writing. Best to ask that question via email and take the answer that way too, so it is there when you get told "contract pilots are too expensive".

 

[learflyer]

My bet would be that the owner did not start this but the management company did. They low-balled the owner on a fee and proceeded to try to take it out of the crew. 24/7 on call means being available, which means you are working. Take the job if it is what you want.

Since you are asking for advice, mine would be:

1) Three pilots
2) Minimum 8 hard days off a month
3) Or 35% above NBAA average salary (still cheaper than the third guy)

The "we will cover days you have to have with a contract pilot" seems all too loose. Get the number of days they will cover with a contract pilot in writing. Best to ask that question via email and take the answer that way too, so it is there when you get told "contract pilots are too expensive".

Great advice. I'd go in with those three ultimatums, and be firm with him.

 

[pushntin]

i would say 6 digits for salary

 

[willNOTfly4free]

They are saying no hard days off available, but if something comes up we could cover the jet for you with a contract pilot.

Where's the guarantee that a contract guy will be available for a 'pop-up?'
Sounds sort of like the company is telling you what you want to hear.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

disregard

 

[jdubya]

This type of deal is nothing new unfortunately. Mangement co. making money...owner wanting coverage, this is aviation. Your description seems to reflect a poor 135 company. But then, I've never known many good ones
I suspect this in the long run will be a high turnover job.
Hey, if you can get typed out of the deal, go for it. I hate to say that, thats not the way to go in a deal, but then again, so many of these jobs are bad deals up front.
On the other side, you could do your job well, make a relationship with the owner, and create your own job.
Good luck.

 

[Basil]

The "two pilot per jet" scheme is very common among management companies that are too scared to ask for three salaries for fear that the owner will seek management elsewhere. After all, someone's always willing to do it cheaper. I'll bet the guy or gal that proposed two pilots on call 24/7 works 9-5 and M-F.

Ask yourself, "who else in the world works 24/7/365 and how are they compensated?"

I left a similar 91 & 135, two-pilots-per-jet, 24/7-ish job for a Fractional...took a greater than 50% pay cut, worked four times as hard, and preferred it. You gotta know when you are gonna be "off".

 

[Basil]

Just Say No.

 

[bluefishbeagle]

I was once offered a job just like you describe. On a beeper twenty four seven expect one week a year. Had to stay in beeper range at all times. When I asked about hard days off the chief pilot said he was working on that. I told him to call me when he had it worked out.

The job had been open for over six weeks with no takers. Mind you this company had four jets starting with a CE500 and ending with a Falcon 50.

Take the job if you are staving but I'd start looking for another the day before I reported for training.

 

[Livin' Life]

It all boils down to where you are in your own life.

Are you married? Are you fine with possibly being gone for more than a week? What about two? Do you have a lot of obligations at home e.g. elderly parents to take care of or the like?

I have such a job and thus far I've been fine with it. When I need time off, I get it. No questions asked. Have I been called out when I had already made plans? Many times. Was I angry? A little. But that's the job and every time I strap into the plane it seems to go away. I can't help it: flying makes me happy. Could it be better? Of course. There's not a job in the world that couldn't. But at the end of the day am I okay with it? Yes.

I am engaged now. Will my future wife okay with it? That remains to be seen. She's used to it right now but what about when the kids come? At that point I'll be thinking of my career in terms of two ( or three, etc.). Maybe it will be time for a change but for right now, 24/7 is okay with me.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Take the job, get the Type, look for other job. Once other job in hand go to current boss and explain how you love this job but you need a life. Negotiate with owner by using logic and compare your job to other in his company. If he balks walk away with experience, a Type and hopefully without burning a bridge.

Good luck