91.205???

[DAS at 10/250]

Tug Driver. Your 1974 airplane needs neither the tail or belly strobe for day VFR.

Midlife, 91.209 is in reference to acft certificated after 3/11/96. An adhoc belly strobe and rotating beacon on the vert. stab. is not an "anti-collision light system". And yes, you can fly day VFR without your trusty rotating beacon inop, or with it not installed. In fact, you don't even need an electrical system!

 

[midlifeflyer]

Midlife, 91.209 is in reference to acft certificated after 3/11/96. An adhoc belly strobe and rotating beacon on the vert. stab. is not an "anti-collision light system". And yes, you can fly day VFR without your trusty rotating beacon inop, or with it not installed. In fact, you don't even need an electrical system!

I think you should re-read the regulation and tell me where it is date limited.

You are right that none needs to be installed before 3/11/96, but if one is installed, 91.209 is pretty clear that it must operate. The 1996 revision did two things with respect to the lights. It required that =all= aircraft certificate after it became effective have them. But it also required "airplanes equipped with an anticollision light system to operate those lights during all operations, including daytime VFR." (FAA Comment in the Federal Register publication of the Final Rule)

And if the "ad hoc" system isn't an "anticollision light system" then I guess you can't fly that older airplane at night even if it =is= working since you'd be violating 91.205(c) which requires "An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system ".

 

[DAS at 10/250]

But it also required "airplanes equipped with an anticollision light system to operate those lights during all operations, including daytime VFR."

You are correct. But not being required by his type certificate or 91.205(b)(11) he is allowed to fly with either or both inop under 91.213.

"ad hoc"

In this I was referring to the differences in placement of the lights. Some are belly, some are tail, some are wing tips, some none or all, some rotate, some flash, some red, some white, etc.

I do suppose I am constantly in violation of 91.209. Our 10K' checklist contains "strobes off".

 

[midlifeflyer]

You are correct. But not being required by his type certificate or 91.205(b)(11) he is allowed to fly with either or both inop under 91.213.

(To pilotman2105: note the primary symptom of "burning tomato syndrome" - elevating the importance of 91.205 to the point where in our minds, the other regulations just don't count)

I'm sorry, but that is not correct. If you read 91.213, you'll see that, in the absence of a MEL, you may not fly with inoperative equipment that is

==============================
(i) Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated;
(ii) Indicated as required on the aircraft's equipment list, or on the Kinds of Operations Equipment List for the kind of flight operation being conducted;
(iii) Required by § 91.205 or any other rule of this part for the specific kind of flight operation being conducted; or
(iv) Required to be operational by an airworthiness directive;
==============================

note the "or". If

(i) at the time the airplane was certified, the airworthiness regulations required something

or

(ii) the airplane's equipment list marks something as required equipment

or

(iii) any rule within Part 91 requires the equipment

or

(iv) an AD requires the equipment

then the equipment is required, it must work (in the absence of a MEL).

 

[DAS at 10/250]

I had never considered it that way. I stand corrected.

Tug Driver, better get your light fixed.

 

[Tug Driver]

I looked in the POH and it says that the becon is optional. I also found out that its a 1971 model (c-150). I could not locate a Min Equipt. List. Two A&P's that I've asked said that it was fine.

What is also confusing is that the POH talks about the strobes being on the wing tips, however like I said before, the strobe is on the belly...

Thanks for all the input, but I will call FSDO today just to be on the safe side.

Thanks Again.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Two A&P's that I've asked said that it was fine.

... and then you end up like the pilot who was violated after maintenance was performed and the A&P told him he was "good to go" and then got violated after an accident because the log entries weren't made.

Thanks for all the input, but I will call FSDO today just to be on the safe side.

and if they tell you it's all right, make sure you (1) get it in writing and then (2) stay in their region.

 

[pilotman2105]

Sounds like a sticky situation to me. My guess is that the fix isn't more than a couple hundred. Just get it fixed and then you don't have to go on a paper chase.

 

[Tug Driver]

I will most definetly get it fixed. However, I am still interested in a definition.

 

[pilotman2105]

23.1401 seems to pretty much say the requirements for the light. What I've been told by instructors in times past is that any flashing white or red light is an "anticollision" light. However, 23.1401 seems to state that it needs to be visible at certain angles.