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757 declares emergency; gets jerked around by ATC

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IMHO.. IF it was that bad, I would TELL them we ARE landing on 17c, not request 17c! What are they going to do tell you no?
 
Yea! Coming out of IAD the controller didn't want to give us a heading we asked for around some serious weather. I was the FO and the NFP as we got closer to the weather and was denied three times my captain said 'Declare an emergency'! I declared it, and we turned........ The controller ask, "Flight#### what are you doing"?
My captain then piped in on the radio!!! Fixing a serious problem, now go and fix yours!!!!!!
The kicker, there was a AA 757 behind us!! Getting the same riff from the controller!! He declared the emergency also!!! The controller on the radio was a straight up dick!!

Declare, and do what you need to do!!!
 
Gents if you declare an emergency you're upsetting their "playbook," wait, you're taking yourself off the NRP no, wait... you're upsetting their dots!

They have a much bigger perspective, you see, if you get out of the line they have set up, how can they vector the next guy into the storm and still provide adequate separation.

Man, what a tool.
 
No, they've got valid points. ATC is always busy, and it's there job to move planes as necessary for separation.

If it's true the AA 757 declared an emergency, and requested Rwy 17C, then there request should have been granted. Was the runway closed due to repair and/or people working on it? OR, was the runway simply unavailable because the controller already had his mojo working to line up planes on that runway, and didn't want to take this AA jet into 17C, "ruining" his game plan.

If it's an emergency, priority must be given. If a pilot declares an emergency and advises that a situation is critical and needs 17C, then the ATC should give 17C. (Of course assuming the runway is open, not torn up for repairs, etc.). If during an emergency, critical situation, if if I ask for a runway, I better get it. If I ask for CFR to be ready at the end of the runway, they better roll the trucks. And if I ask for a stripper at the end of the runway, they better get a stripper out there before I land. And don't send a shemale like they did last time! :smash:
 
Watch me land where I want to and then come and find me. I'll carefully explain it in person when the brakes are set.

Addition in response to above post: According to the TV people(and the FAA didn't seem to say otherwise) they were launching on that runway and didn't want to disrupt the flow. And dam those shemales.
 
svcta said:
Watch me land where I want to and then come and find me. I'll carefully explain it in person when the brakes are set.
Click to expand...

Bingo... Better to ask for forgiveness, than ask for permission.

The news story would be nice to say how much fuel they had on landing and what was the cause. Lets see if I can find some info on this flight.
 
WSurf said:
Yea! Coming out of IAD the controller didn't want to give us a heading we asked for around some serious weather. I was the FO and the NFP as we got closer to the weather and was denied three times my captain said 'Declare an emergency'! I declared it, and we turned........ The controller ask, "Flight#### what are you doing"?
My captain then piped in on the radio!!! Fixing a serious problem, now go and fix yours!!!!!!
The kicker, there was a AA 757 behind us!! Getting the same riff from the controller!! He declared the emergency also!!! The controller on the radio was a straight up dick!!

Declare, and do what you need to do!!!
Click to expand...


Funny, I've never seen a PDT Dash in IAD. Guess you made that the last flight for them.
 
Flyer1015 said:
If it's true the AA 757 declared an emergency, and requested Rwy 17C, then there request should have been granted. Was the runway closed due to repair and/or people working on it? OR, was the runway simply unavailable because the controller already had his mojo working to line up planes on that runway, and didn't want to take this AA jet into 17C, "ruining" his game plan.
Click to expand...

DFW was on a north flow that day...allowing 17C would've disrupted the controllers plan.
 
Tejas-Jet said:
DFW was on a north flow that day...allowing 17C would've disrupted the controllers plan.
Click to expand...

NOT allowing 17C could have seriously had an adverse affect on that flight's outcome. Again, I'm sure ATC would have to ask many planes to go around, turn right/left, and some to even hold. But it has to be done because there is an airplane with an emergency, and their ONLY hope MIGHT have been 17C.

Imgaine the consequence if the flight had an unsuccessful conclusion because ATC denied them 17C due to "disrupt our mojo." There would be HELL to pay!
 
WSurf said:
Yea! Coming out of IAD the controller didn't want to give us a heading we asked for around some serious weather. I was the FO and the NFP as we got closer to the weather and was denied three times my captain said 'Declare an emergency'! I declared it, and we turned........ The controller ask, "Flight#### what are you doing"?
My captain then piped in on the radio!!! Fixing a serious problem, now go and fix yours!!!!!!
The kicker, there was a AA 757 behind us!! Getting the same riff from the controller!! He declared the emergency also!!! The controller on the radio was a straight up dick!!

Declare, and do what you need to do!!!
Click to expand...

Gee attitude from Potomac Appch.......

They're worse than new york
 
Last edited:
scar1900 said:
Funny, I've never seen a PDT Dash in IAD. Guess you made that the last flight for them.
Click to expand...


You must not be lookin' real hard. PDT used to fly in there all the time. It has, however, been a long time since WSurf sat in the right seat so his story is probably Circa 2002.
 
"Might I suggest another airport if you're that low?"

---

Might I suggest another career if you ever do that again?
 
Approaching SJU we heard another aircraft on final vectors for landing. They had declared an emergency, and were direct to the airport with smoke in the cockpit.

I couldn't F-ing believe it when I heard the controller give them a vector off final, then slow to 180 kts because they were number 2 for the runway.

The Captain and I both couldn't believe what we just heard. (all turned out well we think)


They are great 99% of the time. You just have to be ready to "throw them under the bus" the second they threaten the safety of your flight.
 
Holy cow, I can't believe that controller acted as if peter cried wolf. "...suggest another airport if you're THAT low??!!!"

That's despicable behavior...

Shame on you.
 
Flyer1015 said:
Imgaine the consequence if the flight had an unsuccessful conclusion because ATC denied them 17C due to "disrupt our mojo." There would be HELL to pay!
Click to expand...

Now just imagine the tsunami of lawsuits if ATC had been out-sourced to a contractor and that 757 had become a glider.

“Can I suggest a closer airport if you are that low?”

“Roger, Approach, cleared for the visual 17C, contacting the tower.”

“American 4…” <Click>

I remember this bumper sticker I that made the rounds of the ATC unit “Controllers tell pilots where to go.” I have always been of the opinion that the controllers have jobs because pilots and planes exist. Not the other way around.
 
Guys...I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I'm defending that controller, because I'm not...DFW was on a north flow that day...but the controller was wrong in denying the request by an aircraft that had declared an emergency.

And that pilot allowed himself to be intimidated by the ATC folks.
 
I had a Usair pilot give attitude after I had declared a medical emergency. We were diverting into JFK, and the US guy was holding I guess for LGA. The controller told him he would have to take another turn in hold. He shot back with a real disgusted attitude. If I wasn't as busy as I was I would have said somthing. Unbelievable!
 
Tejas-Jet said:
Guys...I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I'm defending that controller, because I'm not...DFW was on a north flow that day...but the controller was wrong in denying the request by an aircraft that had declared an emergency.

And that pilot allowed himself to be intimidated by the ATC folks.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, as soon as FlyBunny gets ahold of this thread she'll step up to bat for him. She's the anti-pilot pilot.
 
That controller was obviously having a bad day when he suggested 31.

Off topic, but the ABC news aviation correspondent is John Nance, and Alaska Airlines Captain and novelist. I'm reading a book of his right now.
 
Tejas-Jet said:
And that pilot allowed himself to be intimidated by the ATC folks.
Click to expand...


That appears to be true.

On the other hand, perhaps the crew reassessed the situation after requesting 17 and decided the situation wasn't quite as dire as they had initially thought. Obviously, once you declare an emergency, you should get what you want. Without more info, I'm not sure if the pilots let themselves be bullied by the controller (as Nance suggests) or they just decided 31 was a safe and workable solution, all things considered.

You hate to accuse a crew of not sacking up and demanding what they want. They might have changed their own minds, irrespective of what the jackass controller wanted. Surely, they knew they were within their rights to overrule the controller and land wherever the hell they wanted to in that situation.

I don't know; I wasn't there. I'd sure like to read a detailed de-brief, though.
 
check6 said:
That controller was obviously having a bad day when he suggested 31.

Off topic, but the ABC news aviation correspondent is John Nance, and Alaska Airlines Captain and novelist. I'm reading a book of his right now.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking that this thread is missing another big point--the press didn't F this story up and some how blame the pilots. It almost sounded like they got all of their facts straight.
 
Holy crap! The world must be coming to an end. Cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria!
 
ReverseSensing said:
That appears to be true.

On the other hand, perhaps the crew reassessed the situation after requesting 17 and decided the situation wasn't quite as dire as they had initially thought. Obviously, once you declare an emergency, you should get what you want. Without more info, I'm not sure if the pilots let themselves be bullied by the controller (as Nance suggests) or they just decided 31 was a safe and workable solution, all things considered.

You hate to accuse a crew of not sacking up and demanding what they want. They might have changed their own minds, irrespective of what the jackass controller wanted. Surely, they knew they were within their rights to overrule the controller and land wherever the hell they wanted to in that situation.

I don't know; I wasn't there. I'd sure like to read a detailed de-brief, though.
Click to expand...


I agree. In an emegency situation nobody wins a pissing contest. The Capt may have seen it going that direction and decided to end that issue and get his copilot back in the cockpit with him, solving the main problem, rather than create a new one. So bravodude, I am not so sure the Capt caved as you claim
 

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