737 type...Corporate kiss of death?

[EMU]

I have been recently furloughed from corporate job. I have the opportunity to get 737 type. A friend of mine says that it would be the "corporate kiss of death". What do you think. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[501261]

I wouldn’t say it’s the kiss of death, far from it actually. However, having a 737 type (unless you actually have flown it PIC) means that you are looking and have already committed at least $8000 to another job. It is something that might be a consideration to a potential employer.

Look at it from the employer’s standpoint, would you want to compete with Southwest for employees? No, Southwest is a hell of a company. On the other hand would a 737 type keep you from getting hired? Probably not, maybe if you matched up identically with another person that might be the deciding factor, but realistically it probably comes down to other factors before it would ever get to that.

Realistically, I’d go ahead and get the 737 type, especially if you can get the government to pay for it. Spending $8K of the government’s money for a type is certainly looked upon differently than blowing your life savings for a chance at Southwest.

Good luck.

 

[English]

I heard the same stuff about the "corporate kiss of death" (see my profile). I haven't had any problems getting a job while having the 737 type on my resume.

 

[jetboy 604]

737 type

If your not going for a 737 job, I would just not list it on the resume. It may come up later in the interveiw but may not.

 

[750driver]

I would agree with Mil-Bushpilot. In my opinion, it won't reduce your chances of getting the corporate job, especially since some of these larger departments are now looking at BBJ's.

 

[Spot]

Just curious, which departments are looking at BBJs?

 

[750driver]

Just curious, which departments are looking at BBJs?

Spot,

"Looking" may have been the wrong term. A few of the current BBJ / B737 operators I know of are:

1. GE Corp. Air Transport
2. Conoco-Phillips (AK)
3. Ford Motor Co.
4. Occidental Petroleum Corp.

Just to name a few ...

 

[Spot]

Gotcha. I was just hoping there were more corp flight depts "looking" at the BBJ.

 

[fokkerjet]

Spot,

"Looking" may have been the wrong term. A few of the current BBJ / B737 operators I know of are:

1. GE Corp. Air Transport
2. Conoco-Phillips (AK)
3. Ford Motor Co.
4. Occidental Petroleum Corp.

Just to name a few ...

To bad that for one of those operators, you need to have a JAA ATPL, and live in London.

As for the 737 type rating, we've hired people with airliner type ratings before, and have yet to lose them to Southwest, or the like. As with any pre-type rated pilot, you will always run the risk of losing them to another operator operating the same type of equipment if your company sucks, or you treat your people like cr@p.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

having that 737 type is not going to hurt you in the corp job search.

I agree with the above, if you treat your folks good and pay them well, they aren't running to the airlines anymore.

good luck with the job search!

 

[CrewDawg]

This may be a dumb question, but why would having a type rating hurt your changes at getting a job?

 

[English]

One the the biggest concerns of charter operators on a training budget is that they will train someone who will turn around and leave to go "to the airlines" within a few weeks of getting trained and typed. Having a 737 type rating on one's certificate inplies that, perhaps, the person is an "airline type" and will go to the airlines at the first opportunity. It especially implies that one is trying to get into the employ of an airline that flies 737s. It further implies one is trying to get on with, primarily, Southwest Airlines, since they require a 737 type rating.

That's why, in a nutshell...

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

I am a SWA/FO, been here about 2 years, had the type and was hired and worked at two different corporate operators during that time. It would be no different than you having a type of any sort and the prospective employer becomes uneasy due to that particular type rating. Good Luck

 

[Rick1128]

I believe English has hit the nail closest to the head. After working for operators that have had pilots leave for the airlines without notice, it makes one careful. While it is nice to see someone get ahead, I, like them would much prefer that it comes out of someone else's budget. When you are dealing charter companies that are always on the edge of profitability, not getting your money's worth out of an employee's training hurts.

 

[EMU]

Thanks for all the advice!
Some background on the original Q.......I talked to a Chief Pilot of a large flight dept that I have been networking for years. I mentioned that I had the opportunity to get a 737 type (through tuition assistance from past employer and WIA). He told me that he would not do it if I wanted to fly corporate again. He also said that he would not hire anyone to fly at his dept with the 737 type. I am aware that this is only one flight departments view.

I am scheduled to go to HPA next week, and still looking for a job!

Thanks EMU

 

[unclematty]

English is right on, but alot depends on the mindset of the Dir. of Ops/Chief Pilot. I have a buddy of mine that was just hired by a company that makes medical supplies based at TTN. He is a laid off usair F/O

I know of a major chemical company based at ILG that will not look at an indivudal if they hold an "airline" type or have an FE rating.

So the point is, like most things in aviation,"It Depends"!!!!

 

[capt_zman]

In my opinion, as someone who has done what you are intending to do, I would save the $8000, get back to a corporate job, then when Southwest begins hiring mid-next year (interviewing), go out and get the type.

Why risk not getting a corporate gig because of a type rating you won't be using for at the very least 1 year. There are something like 700-800 type rated pilots, with similar qualifications, already in the app stack at Southwest. There is a huge number of non-type rated pilots waiting as well, so you cannot assume that you would jump to the front of the line when you get your type rating.

With your qualifications, you should be able to land a decent corporate gig pretty easily. If I had to do it over again, I would put the money in some form of low risk investment. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Publishers]

hiring

While I do not think that the type rating would be the kiss of death, we, like others, look at the likelihood of someone staying awhile.

For instance, someone with an airline only background is not going ot be much of a candidate. They really want to be somwhere else. Someone who had just gotton on with a major, and has a furlough date shortly after 9/11 is viable as he will not be going back quickly.

Age is a factor in the process, as is the number of ratings one has.

Today you are more likely to be looking for someone ready to go. If you need typed, you want someone typed and current. If you need 135, you want someone who has been 135 recently. One advantage of that is you can offer a short term contract to see if that person fits in without a great deal of expense. If things work well you can offer the full time deal. Obviously this would be difficult if you are not where there are a significant number of pilots. Same thing if you had to bear training cost.

 

[AA717driver]

Publisher--I understand your point about not hiring people from the airlines but I would like to offer an opinion.

I am currently interviewing for a corporate job. I have never even considered corporate prior to 9/11. But, having been merged and sent to the bottom of AA's list, I will always be junior. I have only 15 years to fly with the airlines and will be in the sights for the next furlough after I am recalled from this one.

I am tired of commuting(even the short distance of 250 miles). I am tired of the TSA(although they do a fair amount of airlining at this corporation). More importantly, I am tired of the airline business "re-inventing" itself every 10 years or so.

I would hope people will look at the individual rather than rubber-stamping the airline pilot who wishes to change direction in his or her career.

Thanks, take care.TC

 

[Rick1128]

AA,

What myself and folks like publisher are trying to say is that many corporate operators are basing their hiring protocalls on past experience. Many operators have been hurt before when airline pilots who 'resigned' their seniority numbers, suddenly left to go back to the airlines. And many are a little distrustful of those pilots who are now jumping over the fence to the greener grass, especially those who come on that they are something special because they are 'airline' pilots.

These folks are basing their hiring requirements past experience. Experience that they paid a price for. And unfortunately you are your brother airline pilots will have to pay the price for what your senior brothers did during the last two big furloughs.

 

[El Bucho]

Here's what you do.

Send the FAA 2 bucks and get a replacement for your license that you "lost." Do this pre-737 type.

Get your 73 type and hand in your old license.

Receive your new license with the 73 type on it. Now you should have two in your posession. One with a 73 type. One without. Use your discretion on which one you show whom.

 

[Rick1128]

DON'T DO THAT. All air carriers anbd many corporate operators do FAA records checks. That will show your type. And now you are in big trouble with this employer, as you have LIED to them.

 

[banned username 2]

DON'T DO THAT. All air carriers anbd many corporate operators do FAA records checks. That will show your type. And now you are in big trouble with this employer, as you have LIED to them.

Exactly...

DUMB, DUMB, DUMB...

 

[AA717driver]

Rick1128--I understand completely. My AA "brothers" were some of the biggest offenders in that respect. I understand FEX and UPS won't even look at a furloughed AA pilot... TC

 

[English]

I was assigned the task of screening resumes for a co-pilot corporate position a little less than two years ago. I was told point-blank by the chief pilot to discard any resumes from any pilot who appeared to be furloughed from an airline (the irony being that I was furloughed six months prior to this). So, if there was any Boeing or Airbus experience listed on the resume I was to toss it. Also, if the person had high flight time, I was to toss it.

If you really want to get into corporate, you'll have to convince most operators that you are sincere about sticking around. Which means you'll need to be somewhat sincere about sticking around. It's hard to be sincere enough on paper to get past expectations and preconcieved notions. So, make a personal appearance and sell yourself.

 

[Publishers]

in addition

In addition to what I have already said, one thing that got my attention is that the airline resumes tend to come with no cover letter, just the hours.. There is little effort to say anything except I have 14,000 hours in airline equipment.

Some even leave the job objective as : want position with major carrier or something similar.

No doubt they wonder why they do not get a call with all that exeperience driving that Boeing Super 947 let alone anything that we might have.