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737 & "Marrying the Bugs"

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Is it settled yet?

just wondering.....












​
 
Fubijaakr said:
I was just letting Crunk in on how our senior Capts. acquired the habit.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's exactly the info I was looking for.

I'm gonna take a keyword from your post: habit.

That's all it is, a habit. Most people don't know why they do it, they just do it.

Kinda like knocking on wood. Or putting the gate info in on the pos page when you're using GPS coords. ;)
 
Other than being an annoyance to the more-anal among us, is there a problem with "marrying" the bugs in the aircraft in question? It still applies as a good practice (and therefore habit) in my current antiquated but beloved steed, but we have no procedure dictating it.
 
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b707guy said:
Other than being an annoyance to the more-anal among us, is there a problem with "marrying" the bugs in the aircraft in question? It still applies as a good practice (and therefore habit) in my current antiquated but beloved steed, but we have no procedure dictating it.
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On the 737s I fly, apparently it's an old habit. An old habit doesn't equal a good habit. It's not a bad habit, just a habit.

This came up because a Captain I flew with had his hand on the heading bug at least once a minute on his leg. On my leg he got irked that I didn't do the same. Should he have been irked? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
 
ImbracableCrunk said:
On my leg he got irked that I didn't do the same. Should he have been irked? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Click to expand...

Ahh, there's the rub. From your description, I'd have to side with you here. But at the same time, I frequently go halfway or more across the country on a direct clearance (one of the advantages of flying when most people are sound asleep), and the heading doesn't change THAT much. I'd hope maybe six or so "bug nuptials" in three+ hours of great circle cruise wouldn't be too much for you!:laugh:
 
ImbracableCrunk said:
On the 737s I fly, apparently it's an old habit. An old habit doesn't equal a good habit. It's not a bad habit, just a habit.

This came up because a Captain I flew with had his hand on the heading bug at least once a minute on his leg. On my leg he got irked that I didn't do the same. Should he have been irked? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Click to expand...

No.

Ask him to educate you, "Is it in the manual?" then let him do all the marrying. Don't ever touch it unless ATC assigns a heading.
 
The following is from an article I read recently titled:

Smart Avionics Do Stupid Things

We recommend "step down" disabling of automation wherever possible. For example, many (if not most) pilots immediatly disconnect the autopilot if it makes an unexpected turn... This action gives the pilot control but dramatically increases workload right when having an autopilot is most helpful. Instead, we recommend engaging the heading mode. Now the pilot has control to send the aircraft in any direction, but without nearly the increase in workload. To make this work, you should be continually syncing your heading bug as you fly. Automation still demands good habits.
 
Viva La Airbus!

The Airbus only activates the heading bug when you select (pull) heading. It keeps these kind of discussions from the flight deck.
 
jimcav said:
Some captains just have wierd idiosyncracies. Part of being a good copilot is to just deal with it. Some day you will be the boss and get to set the tone.
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Part of being being a good man is not putting up with the blowhard in the left seat.

Even if it is in the manual there is nothing wrong with doing it your way and telling the old fart to stuff it. I told a guy the other day "When it's my leg it is my aircraft.......questions?????" He didn't like it but I decided then I would set the tone for the trip.

As far as heading control if he marrys the bug and gets pissed off whe you don't; when it is his leg, turn the bug out 180 degrees everytime he does it and laugh at him. See what he says to that.
 
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This message is hidden because instructordude is on your ignore list.
 
instructordude said:
Part of being being a good man is not putting up with the blowhard in the left seat.

Even if it is in the manual there is nothing wrong with doing it your way and telling the old fart to stuff it. I told a guy the other day "When it's my leg it is my aircraft.......questions?????" He didn't like it but I decided then I would set the tone for the trip.

As far as heading control if he marrys the bug and gets pissed off whe you don't; when it is his leg, turn the bug out 180 degrees everytime he does it and laugh at him. See what he says to that.
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Sure you would. Good CRM doesn't mean you get an equal say in anything. All it means is that you have the right to be heard. The Captain gets to then determine if what you spew out your pie hole provides anything of worth (In your case I'm guessing probably not). I recommend you do one of two things:

1) Refresh your memory on what CRM and professional standards really are; or:

2) Move to South America where you can get your Captain slot and your 5-bar epaulets - that way you can overcome your epaulet envy.
 
instructordude said:
Even if it is in the manual there is nothing wrong with doing it your way and telling the old fart to stuff it. I told a guy the other day "When it's my leg it is my aircraft.......questions?????"
Click to expand...

And my response would have been "well, I guess it isn't your leg". Now make yourself useful and peel us some grapes.

Old fart Capt: Close your eyes and tell me what you see.

You as FO: Uh, nothing!

Old fart Capt: VERY GOOD! - that's what's YOURS in this airplane today. Now open your eyes. Everything you see inside these windows is mine. Questions?

Fortunately, just about all of the people I have the privilege of working with don't create such an atmosphere. Guess you're not one of them. You continue to reveal exactly what part of a "good man" you are.
 
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Just ignore him. He gets off on this. And is distracting people from what I thought was a good debate.

I'd like to read the rest of that article about step-down automation. Where did you find it?

On the 737, I think CWS would do that quite nicely. If the LNAV causes an un-expected turn, couldn't you deselect it and level the wings? Or simply override the A/P in to CWS Roll?

The same would apply if ATC said fly current heading - if you're not in a turn, just deselect LNAV.

I personally would take the 2 seconds max to dial the correct heading and then hit HDG SEL.
 
CWS - most incredible thing in aviation since Orville and Wilbur.

Boeing's automation blows.

PIPE
 

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