61.55

[C-5 MEM]

I have a question about 61.55. I know back around 2002 or 2003 you could get instruction from the chief pilot or chief of training to sit in the right seat. But the new changes say an electronic log book must got to FISDO to get an 8710 completed.
My question is when did that change. Back in 2002 I knew a several guys who flew right seat in a Citation 3 and never had to get that endorcement. Only the chief pilot made a logbook entry.

C-5

 

[avbug]

I have a question about 61.55. I know back around 2002 or 2003 you could get instruction from the chief pilot or chief of training to sit in the right seat. But the new changes say an electronic log book must got to FISDO to get an 8710 completed.
My question is when did that change. Back in 2002 I knew a several guys who flew right seat in a Citation 3 and never had to get that endorcement. Only the chief pilot made a logbook entry.

Your question isn't clear. 14 CFR 61.55 is clear.

§ 61.55 Second-in-command qualifications.

(a) A person may serve as a second-in-command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second-in-command pilot flight crewmember only if that person holds:


(1) At least a current private pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating; and


(2) An instrument rating or privilege that applies to the aircraft being flown if the flight is under IFR; and


(3) The appropriate pilot type rating for the aircraft unless the flight will be conducted as domestic flight operations within United States airspace.


(b) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may serve as a second-in-command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second-in-command unless that person has within the previous 12 calendar months:


(1) Become familiar with the following information for the specific type aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested—


(i) Operational procedures applicable to the powerplant, equipment, and systems.


(ii) Performance specifications and limitations.


(iii) Normal, abnormal, and emergency operating procedures.


(iv) Flight manual.


(v) Placards and markings.


(2) Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, performed and logged pilot time in the type of aircraft or in a flight simulator that represents the type of aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested, which includes—


(i) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop as the sole manipulator of the flight controls;


(ii) Engine-out procedures and maneuvering with an engine out while executing the duties of pilot in command; and


(iii) Crew resource management training.


(c) If a person complies with the requirements in paragraph (b) of this section in the calendar month before or the calendar month after the month in which compliance with this section is required, then that person is considered to have accomplished the training and practice in the month it is due.


(d) A person may receive a second-in-command pilot type rating for an aircraft after satisfactorily completing the second-in-command familiarization training requirements under paragraph (b) of this section in that type of aircraft provided the training was completed within the 12 calendar months before the month of application for the SIC pilot type rating. The person must comply with the following application and pilot certification procedures:


(1) The person who provided the training must sign the applicant's logbook or training record after each lesson in accordance with §61.51(h)(2) of this part. In lieu of the trainer, it is permissible for a qualified management official within the organization to sign the applicant's training records or logbook and make the required endorsement. The qualified management official must hold the position of Chief Pilot, Director of Training, Director of Operations, or another comparable management position within the organization that provided the training and must be in a position to verify the applicant's training records and that the training was given.


(2) The trainer or qualified management official must make an endorsement in the applicant's logbook that states “[Applicant's Name and Pilot Certificate Number] has demonstrated the skill and knowledge required for the safe operation of the [Type of Aircraft], relevant to the duties and responsibilities of a second in command.”


(3) If the applicant's flight experience and/or training records are in an electronic form, the applicant must present a paper copy of those records containing the signature of the trainer or qualified management official to an FAA Flight Standards District Office or Examiner.


(4) The applicant must complete and sign an Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710–1, and present the application to an FAA Flight Standards District Office or to an Examiner.


(5) The person who provided the ground and flight training to the applicant must sign the “Instructor's Recommendation” section of the Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710–1. In lieu of the trainer, it is permissible for a qualified management official within the organization to sign the applicant's FAA Form 8710–1.


(6) The applicant must appear in person at a FAA Flight Standards District Office or to an Examiner with his or her logbook/training records and with the completed and signed FAA Form 8710–1.


(7) There is no practical test required for the issuance of the “SIC Privileges Only” pilot type rating.

There is no requirement for an electronic logbook. A paper one may be used. If you have an electronic logbook, a paper copy must be presented.

If you're looking for SIC privileges domestically, no SIC type rating is required. It's only required if you fly outside the United States.

It's a FSDO, not a FISDO.

If you are going for a SIC type rating, then yes, you need to show your logs, you need an endorsement, you need a signed form 8410, and it must be presented in person at the FSDO.

Your Form 8410 must be signed by an instructor or management official, as highlighted, underlined, and bolded in the above excerpted copy of the regulation.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Note also that for domestic, Part 91 operations where no SIC type rating is required (see avbug's post for more detail), the terms used in the regulation are "become familiar with" and "performed and logged". It doesn't need to be with the Chief Pilot or an official "training pilot"...you can do self-study on the airplane, and do the required flying with any type-rated pilot.

The only place the word "training" is used is with regard to CRM, and since it doesn't use the term "instruction" like most other training regs, a CFI isn't required for that either.

Fly safe!

David