6 seat piston for under 100K? advice pls

[sabreliner]

Cherokee 6-300.

For a new student, you can't beat it. It is reasonably easy and forgiving to fly. You can pickup a nice one well within your price range. It has simple systems that help keep the operating costs down, and it shouldn't be too hard to insure.

I'd be wary of getting your friend into something complex or with 2 motors for several reasons. Number 1, he'll never be able to get insurance. Number 2, it will be a lot more difficult to learn in and a lot less forgiving, making him more likely to get discouraged and quit. Number 3, it won't cost a bundle and scare him out of the market.

My thoughts anyway.

 

[CF34-3B1]

Gotta add my vote for a -Six (300)

When I was instructing, I had a student wanting to do exactly the same thing, and had exactly the same idea of "I really want a twin..."

Even though he didn't have a $100k limit (he was a Dr. had $ to burn) he DID have a "Value" limit.

After crunching the numbers of not only acquisition and operating/maintenance costs, but especially insurance, he finally settled on a fixed gear Saratoga. Having flown it for close to 100hrs with him, and also having a lot of Seneca time, I gotta tell you, if it were my $ I'd go for the -Toga or the -Six too. The Seneca is a great airplane, but the difference in $ versus the performance is so dramatic I'd have a hard time justifying a light twin.

The added expense of the retractable HP singles or light twins is usually not worth it to someone looking for a family hauler. The main reasons you see so many of them has more to do with emotional decisions (they're sexy) than practicality.

Get the -Six.

 

[Timebuilder]

Right on.

The only reason I would consider the Seneca or a similar plane would be to operate it as a part of a flight school fleet/leaseback, or if I had to build multi time quickly.

For personal flying, where money is no barrier, the Baron is a top notch piston choice. You would pay an insurable instructor to fly with you until you reached the experience necessary for insurance. A lot of MEI's would make themselves available for that, to be sure.

Other than that, the Six is the plane of choice.

 

[capt_zman]

CF34,

Got to disagree with you here. It's off topic here, but I would put my BE58 baron up against anything in the family hauling category. I routinely put 4 adults, 2 kids and baggage on trips from MA to FL (average 5.5 hours of flight time and requires one fuel stop in NC/SC).

Try that in any six place single, it just isn't going to happen. I burn 28-30 gals per hour, which isn't much more than the six or saratoga. I also plan on 185 kts in the summer and 190-195 in the winter. Again, try that in a cherokee six or fixed gear saratoga.

Nothing emotional about this decision, even though it is so much sexier than a cherokee or saratoga

 

[bigD]

Well, in the 300 powered six that I flew, I could easily get 4 adults, 2 kids, and some baggage off the ground with full tanks of gas - I'd just be pushing them through the air at 135 knots instead of 185! And yes, the Baron is far sexier than the Six. It certainly wasn't a great looking plane!

But lemme ask you this - would you be willing to sell your Baron for less than 100K?

 

[capt_zman]

You can't have mine, but at today's prices, you can find something for close to that.

 

[bigD]

D*ammit zman - don't temp me! That LAST think I need to be looking at doing is buying a plane right now.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

The PA32-300 is a great airplane for a family.

With the tip tanks full and the mains to the tabs you still have over 4 hours of fuel onboard. It burns 16gph in cruise and will true out in the 130-140kt range.

One thing not mentioned yet on this thread is the fact that the Cherokee Six is roomy. I am a big guy (6'6", 230lbs) and have plenty of space except when I have to put someone directly behind me. It has more room than a 206 and a Bonanza/Baron.

One interesting consideration about the Six is that it has a max zero-fuel weight of 3112lbs. Coupled with an empty weight of about 1965lbs that leaves you a max payload of 1147lbs. There is no zero fuel weight in the Saratoga.

I will routinely take the Six into a 1900' gravel strip up here in AK with 5 or 6 onboard.

If I had the money and the need to haul a family around, the Six would definitely be the aircraft at the top of my list.

Good luck.

Cheers!

GP

 

[hyper]

Another thumbs up for the PA-32-300 . Excellent all-purpose plane. Keep it simple and stay away from retracts for now. Higher insurance and higher maintenance costs.

Although a Baron would be nice, it just ain't in the price structure. If he's a new student (as you said) the insurance would be almost as much as the plane, if you could even get it. High performance twin-low/no time, etc., etc.. Not to mention the risk. Not to belittle you or your skills, but how much time do you have in a Baron, or hi-perf twin for that matter? Would you truly feel competent enough to teach a fresh student in such an aircraft that would be as new to you as well, without any kind of transitional progression? 5 hrs may make you legal, but unless you have more time in some other hi-perf twin, it ain't much. Teaching someone to fly in a 190kt aircraft is more like a rectal exam if you ask me.

Just some things to ponder. Many people get caught up in the regs, but fail to consider the safety and realism.

 

[hyper]

P.S. If you find a Baron for under $100k.....it's a basket case.