50% Capt the rest get top pay????

[wscrj]

Hawk/Whiskey

It is not my intention to change your opinions. From your posts it is easy to gather that you have made up your minds using what little information, be it true or false, was available to you at the time--just as the Mesa pilots made their decisions based off of information available to them. If you don't approve of their decision...it is really no matter, since the decision was not yours to make. If venting about Mesa pilots serves as some pseudo pat on the back regarding your own contracts, then perhaps you should consider what you would have done under different circumstances. What would you do now? What would you tell your respective managments to do if they came at you looking for concessions? If your flying was being transferred to another certificate that your airline paid for? If your codeshare partner was in backruptcy? If your codeshare partner was prepared to deal with the alter-ego airline?

THe new Mesa contract is an improvemt over the previous one. Is it everything Mesa Pilots hoped for? Certainly not. Does it assure our growth and potentially leave us in a stronger position to weather this industry storm? Likely so. You may not like the Mesa contract, but the fact is that you don't have to work under it. And before you regurgitate some nonsense about Mesa's contract causing concessions, remind yourself that your contract is strong, your pilot group is strong, your airline is better, right? To accept concessions would simply be to admit the hypocrisy of your arguement, right? Well, don't let that happen. Take great satisfaction that what the Mesa pilots had to contend with, you did not...and you will not....ever, right?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

WSCRJ,

I am prepared to take issue with parts of your statements. If you think that the contract that you voted for won't have a ripple effect throughout the entire regional market then not only are you sadly mistaken but you are not as intelligent as I gave you credit for. Every airline is taking this economy to attempt to renogotiate terms of their agreements with a/c makers as well as their employees. In the regional market everyone knows that the RJ is a real money maker and every regional partner knows that the main line needs them as Delta found out with the comair strike. I mentioned in an earlier post that even our management has hinted to the fact that most regionals will have to conform to the mesa standard. Now herein lies the problem, mesa has no standard. You have allowed the wolf into the chicken coop and now it's going to be hard as he11 to get him out. I use that example because now another air carrier is faced with an alter ego situation and we all know that if works for one keep doing it until someone puts a stop to it. Did it ever dawn on you guys that USAIR came to several other regionals before ever comming to mesa?? Why do you think all the others turned them down? The other carriers even NON UNION Skywest would never get it past the pilot group. You guys had an excellent opportunity to really make a great statement and set an example, instead you failed and announced to the entire regional industry that it's ok to whipsaw.

WD.

 

[hawkowl88]

wscrj,

Don't give me that walk a mile in my mocassins crap. I've BEEN there. Notice I signed my post "former Mesa pilot". I was prepared to put my money where my mouth is. Mesa was a hideous place to work and now it's the laughingstock. You always have a choice...I'd walk in anyones resume that voted against this b.s. Upgrade to EMB120 captain 6 mos. CRJ captains 2 1/2 years. You ALWAYS have a choice.

Also, Skywest management did come to us with that mickey mouse, chicken-little-the-sky-is-falling argument J4J. We were told that we could lose the UAL flying and if we didn't take J4J we were looking at possible furloughs.

We voted 88% to put the proposal where the sun don't shine, and that we would rather deliver pizzas than lower the bar.

HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME.

 

[RUhiring?]

You guys are wound too tight.

You are going to give yourselves an ulcer.

The Mesa vote it over. Whether or not you agree with it is a moot point. There is nothing that can be done about it now, except to take a stand yourselves when presented with the same situation. (Which will happen)

 

[wscrj]

Whipsawing..

I hear you loud and clear Whiskey, and I understand your point. However, let me clear up a little about whipsawing at Mesa. It's a very old tradition here...even Hawk will agree with me on that point. Freedom was just the latest attempt, and it was working well. The CCair folks were used also, and eventually managements attempt would have been successful, had ALPA national not refused to sign the contract. In turn, JO shut CCAir down. Our best bet to END freedom, and END the whipsawing, was a new scope language for the entire MESA AIR GROUP, not just Mesa Airlines. During negotiations, we were offered our own ALPA written scope as part of a package proposal, which ALPA told us was either a mistake or a miscalculation on managements part...who knows for sure. The problem was that to alter any part of the proposal would void the ENTIRE thing, scope included. I.E. a change to J4J, and it all goes away. By accepting the proposal, we could capture Freedom flying under a SINGLE seniority list, re-instate the CCAir folks, and have the whole of MESA AIR GROUP under one contract with ALPA. That is quite simply the way it was laid out here. What are your predictions for an industry with MESA/CCAIR ALPA pilots on the street, and Freedom growing like a proverbial weed. Is that truly the way you wanted it to turn out?

 

[wscrj]

Just curious Hawk. If you think you can do so in a civil tone, tell me when you left Mesa and went to SkyWest.

Also, if you had not left and were still here during the recent vote, what would you be doing now? For the purposes of this scenario, you may consider all other regionals off limits with the exception of CHQ, TSA and whoever else might be hiring.

WHat would you do with Freedom airlines at SkyWest?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

TSA just approved J4J with USAir.

The new UAL and AA TA's talk about J4J with them.

If this comes to pass, then ALMOST ALL of the regional airlines will be facing the question of J4J. If UAL/AA/USAir want J4J, then the only way to expand any regional will be to go it alone, or accept J4J.

Continental, Alaska, Midwest, and ATA have their own feed, so they aren't affected. SWA, and Jet Blue don't have feed, so they aren't affected.

They only feeders not under J4J pressure are Mesaba/Big Sky/Pinnacle for NWA (as NWA hasn't mentioned J4J yet), and AWAC feeding AirTran (although they're under J4J pressure from UAL).

There's almost no one left. Do you J4J, or do you miss out on the huge RJ growth, and let the other feeders pass you by?

CLiff
GRB

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Cliff,

Understand that we are under no j4j pressure from UAL. We we told that if ANY UEX carrier wanted 70CRJ's that they would have to take furloughed pilots from UAL with details to be worked out later. Our MEC has already spoken to the UAL MEC on the subject and has advised that the UAL pilots will not be looking to enter as captains on any equipment thus keeping the seniority system in tact.

WD.

 

[jerichka]

Hey guys, this is quite a debate you're waging. Hope I'm not intruding or straying from the theme, but, is this why Mesa is able to offer an interview to a 300TT pilot? I'm just finishing my comm/Inst./multi and considering their PACE program. I'm 35 and don't want to instruct. I want to get on the flightline ASAP. Low pay doesn't seem to bother me at this point. I just want a job.

 

[WileE]

As far as I know....

The only way for a 300 tt pilot to get an interview is if he went through Mesa's home grown San Juan progam. Otherwise the times were pretty much 1000 tt and 200 me. If a non San Juaner 300 time pilot got an interview it's probably more to do with being related or sleeping with someone in HR.