47 Grads of Gulfstream hired by Pinnacle

[ChadCRJ]

Recently 47 conduates from the Gulfstream Academy have been hired by Pinnacle Airlines (NWairlink) to fly the CRJ. So for all you out there that complain about this place gulfstream must be doing something right. Also Pinnalces future plans of hiring are to hire 300 more pilots next year in 03'. 75% will be made of of NWA furloughs an the other 25% perfect will be Gulfstream grads. Once all the NWA guys are gone Pinnacle will exclusively hire only from Gulfstream.

Chad

 

[ChadCRJ]

Yes they are qualified.

These guys are either just as qualified as you or even more qualified. These grads still have to go up to Daytona to fly an pass the B1900 checkride by an FAA examiner like everyone else. So whats the deal? Have you ever heard of an accident involving a Gulfstream Grad.? An how come guys at Pinnacle are saying how they like the GIA grads? I just think a lot people need to think before they throw stuff on this board just bc they see the name GULFSTREAM. Bc half the time you have no clue what your even saying..

 

[Loafman]

That's pretty narrow minded, only hiring from one bridge program. I'm not against hiring from bridge programs, all of my sim students from them did exceptionally well, however there are a lot of qualified guys out there on their own looking for a job.

Do you think Peanuckle gets a kickback out of GS?

Don't get me wrong on this opinion, and please realize that I know nothing of the school in question, but the students I've trained from these accelerated schools were usually committed to the task at hand and had a vested interest in their training over the average CFI we hired off the street. They seemed to be very organized and used to the "drinking from the fire hose" method of training we used. Just comparing apples and oranges, I had several 400 hour students from a bridge programs breeze through the ATR without a hiccup, and a 1500 hour guy with supposed "Lear Experience" that washed out after me having to spoon feed him the whole time.

It's all about aptitude AND attitude in training that makes a qualified new hire. In the first 1000 hours "experience" is a term used way too loosely to prove who is more qualified. "Experience" is the term that should be used to describe the single-pilot freight dog that flew light twins IFR at night to pay his dues. (Not describing me, I'm just naturally gifted. : )

 

[tk855]

Sounds to me like a Gulfstream saleswo(man) gave ChadCRJ one hell of a pitch!!!!!! I will give you some free advice buddy, but I will only do it this once and then I will charge you for it. Once I feel that you can give advice, I will pay you $7 per advice hour until you have administered 300 hours of advice.

Here is your advice young one:

Don't believe a thing you hear and only believe half of what you see!!!

By the way, what is a conduate??

 

[ChadCRJ]

where did you gain all the insight into the hiring practices of Pinnacle, and the opinions of line pilots flying with Gulfstream grads?

I got all my info from reliable sources.. Im not here to bullsh*t neone. I'm just basically stating whats going on. Yes I have talked to line captains that fly for Pinnacle and yes I just got all this hiring info from a 19yr old that just got hired by Pinnacle. So to answer ur questions... what im telling ya is the real deal man. And you asked... Am I training at Gulfstream? Nope. I'm looking at and going down to tour many academies.. Comair Academy.. Flight Safety.. Pan Am... and I'm gonna take a look at Gulfstream. I know there is a lot of bad mouth about that school but I want to check out first hand and see what its all about. And from there the beat goes on...

 

[toneal]

I wil speel itt four u

*G*U*L*L*I*B*L*E*

 

[AZaviator]

Pinnacle is the airline that doesn't pay you a cent during the entire training process, nor do they pay for your hotel.
Gulfstream is the airline that pays you $8/hr to fly, after you pay them. How is it possible to afford working for these companies?

So whats the deal? Have you ever heard of an accident involving a Gulfstream Grad.?

Yep, here's one. Its not an accident, but an incident that you can tell is most likely because of a very inexperienced low time Gulfstream FO. Pay special attention to the very last sentence from the NTSB report:

The 'fwd cabin door' annunciator light was inoperative and MEL'd; it was scheduled to be examined later that evening. Six discrepancies in the previous year pertaining to the forward airstair door annunciator were recorded; the latest discrepancy was 2 days earlier. The captain briefed the MEL item with the first officer (F/O), who reported closing and locking the forward airstair door, and verifying such. The F/O reported only verbally briefing the passenger adjacent to the door about the door opening procedures but did not demonstrate. After takeoff at 800 feet 800 feet msl, the forward airstair door opened. An emergency was declared, the flight returned and landed uneventfully. The propeller blades and aft cables of the forward airstair door were damaged; the door latching mechanism operated normally. The company F/O's are taught to verbally discuss with passengers the door opening procedure without demonstrating. Several of the company F/O's reported partially opening the forward airstair door to demonstrate the procedure to the passenger; accomplishing this after closing and locking the door. Post incident, the F/O was vague about how to verify that the forward airstair door is locked.

 

[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream and Pinnacle whatever

Pay for training, sell your soul, sell out other pilots. That's one way to look at P-F-T.

I don't quite understand CRJ's point about (low-time) Gulfstream grads being able to pass a 1900 checkride. MAPD grads at 300 hours pass 1900 rides before going on the line. For that matter, they fly 1900s for ten hours during their school training. It used to be that they got 135 letters as well. So that point seems immaterial. For that matter, I knew a 250-hour FSI grad, linguistically-challenged, who got a Citation type rating.

The issue at discussion, as always, is you-know-what. We've discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseum the careers dangers one might face via P-F-T. The moral and ethical implications might be abstract. Getting hired with the hours you have after your Gulfstream hitch is more concrete. Sure, you end up with, say, 500 hours total, 250 turbine and 250 SIC. You cannot count on upgrading to Pinnacle because you can't count on anything in the current job market. Therefore, you are short on time, short on multi and short on PIC for most other commuters and other jobs, such as 135. So, you need to build up time for them. Which just could mean that you'll have to circle back and get your CFI because you won't find other jobs with your hours.

I view P-F-T something like the salary cap in pro football. Teams spend their pocketbooks to buy a championship team. A few years down the road the cap hits them and they have to unload their high-priced players for less expensive talent of lesser quality. All of a sudden, the team is mediocre and a loser. And, the fans bitch. To make this more clear, you buy your job at Gulstream, you're turned loose, and no other regional wants you because you're low time (never mind that they've ferreted out that you P-F-T'd). You thought you were a winner. Now, you're losing and unhappy.

Just some food for thought.

CRJ, please, please give careful consideration to the non-P-F-T schools you're evaluating. Take the "career consultants'" sales pitches with a big grain of salt. Good luck with your decision.

 

[B52GUNNER]

They just hired 47 of 50some that interviewed. Some screwed up the interview.

Rumor has it that they will be going back in Feb for 50 more.


No pay for 2-3 months in training...........Jet job

No ID until done training.........................Jet job

No pay for hotel......................................Jet job

Debt........yes...............Jet job.................Maybe


$10 per hour...........................................Flight Inst

3-4 Years of $10.00 per hour..................Flight Inst

Flying circles round patch in 172.............Flight Inst

People trying to kill you all day...............Flight Inst

1500 hrs in 172.............Interview..........Maybe

Hmmmmmmmm.......Let me see looks like you PAY your dues either way you look at it. Just what kind of dues you pay seems to be the question. Either way you are not guaranteed anything.

I am not saying GIA is the way to go. For some it might be

 

[Timebuilder]

Perhaps it is the way to go for some.

The wealthy. The jet job seems appropriately glamorous (ha) to them, and learning aviation from the inside, as an instructor, looks boring, and possibly beneath them.

Those with co-signers for a Big Loan. Usually, mom and dad. This is different from paying for college, which leads to a job becuase of qualifications.

Those who are unconcerned that they will have no chance at another job with their current experience if they aren't hired out of the bridge program.

Those who want the jet job as opposed to those who love flying.

Those who have no clue of the PFT stigma among pilots.


B52 and Chad probably never saw my posts on PFT over the past couple of years. They never talked with the high time captains I met as a young man. They never talked with the Continental captain who sits on their hiring board, who explained how he feels about PFT, and how he NEVER hires PFT pilots.

They never were faced with trying to find a job when they weren't hired by the company where they were "guaranteed to interview" because they didn't have the hours or experience to get another job, or the instructor certificates they needed to build enough time and experience to become qualified for another job.

They may not know that they have demonstrated to Pinnacle just how little they value themselves as pilots and as people. With the shrinkage at the so-called major airlines, they will probably be at Pinnacle for a very long time, making about what I made as an instructor, but without the ability to instruct if they are furloughed.

Not a happy prospect for a young person.


A better, more valuable approach might be a school where you are thoroughly taught, must then thoroughly teach, and are well prepared for a career in aviation, no matter where it takes you.

Now that's a plan.

 

[B52GUNNER]

I have seen your posts, and others posts. Some are informative, and some are just bitter. Each of you are entitled to your opinion.

I have no problem with the route you have chosen. I have been in aviation for over 15 years and have had my ratings for over 10. I could have taken the flight instructing job back in the early 90s and would have been a captain with the majors now. Hind sight is 20/20. but I have been working on the maintenance/operations side of the fence for the past 10 years. The money on the maint/parts/operations side was a lot more than I could have made flying.

As for the love of flying, I have worked at almost every job in the airline industry, from loading planes, to selling tickets, to fixing engines, selling parts..etc... Dont think that some of us that are out working on and loading your birds dont have aspirations as well. Some of us ramp rats can make good. I have saved for a long time and my family has done without to go the route I have chosen and done things for the airplanes that you or others might not have done.

I have spoken with some Captains that are on hiring boards. As a matter of fact, I have flown with some of them in the military. As you say, some look down on this route, but others have said that they would pefer someone that has had 121 experience over someone with only time flight instructing. In my class we had several (3) flight instructors with over 1000 hours total time going through the program to get the 121 experience and turbine time. They did no better in the academics/sim than those of us with less time. As a matter of fact, in my class, some of us with the lower times finished the class above the flight instructors. It comes down to the individual.


I hope this doesnt start the old flame thing , but like I said what is right for me at 35 with my career history, may not be right for you or someone else.

With that and $1.50 you might be able to get a cup of coffee.

 

[dondk]

Re: 47 Grads of Gulfstream hired by Pinn

Recently 47 conduates from the Gulfstream Academy have been hired by Pinnacle Airlines (NWairlink) to fly the CRJ. So for all you out there that complain about this place gulfstream must be doing something right. Also Pinnalces future plans of hiring are to hire 300 more pilots next year in 03'. 75% will be made of of NWA furloughs an the other 25% perfect will be Gulfstream grads. Once all the NWA guys are gone Pinnacle will exclusively hire only from Gulfstream.

Chad

I found this entertaining at best... I am happy someone from outside MY company knows EXACTLY what is going on.

Per the LOA the classes in Feb will have 75% with NWA personnel. The only thing is... we have only had about 50 NWA bite at the opportunity. Of the 50... several WERE NOT offered a position.

We are OVER 600 strong and should be at 900 by this time next year. We have hired other than GIA and NWA furloughee's and continue to interview from the general pilot population.

Yes in Feb or so we should be drawing again from the GIA pool. Exactly what deal mgmt has made with GIA is beyond our understanding. The rumor of 50 or so is accurate. Do not believe that EVERY GIA person makes it to the line at Pinnacle, they don't! Many do, but some have failed or dropped out. For the disbelievers, I personally (and unfortunately) saw one GIA wash out.

As for how we Pinnacle pilots like GIA people? Let me preface it by saying... several of us have friends who were either IN training at or around 9/11 or who had a class date around the same time. Management basically goes to GIA, gets some 40+ GIA pilots, hires them, trains them THEN gets back around to to our friends. How do you think we feel? How would you feel to be the person behind 40 something GIA dudes who "stepped" on you?

Personally, I don't care either way, I have flown with some GIA people at my previous airline, I have also flown with MAPD grads who have similar time and experience. My only issue... we have so many qualified people riding a desk or doing some non-flying job that should be given an EQUAL chance at the right seat of the Pinnacle CRJ. I feel, let the best pilot earn the position, not because thay came from a program or have "bridge program". Aviation is about paying your dues, whether it be instructing, frieght dog, 135, corporate or whatever. You will take more away from those jobs than you can ever buy at a "program"

 

[Timebuilder]

Bitter? I know you can't be referring to me.

In fact, I am very positive, and forever grateful to the truly senior aviators who guided me away from PFT, and that includes the one who created the air in which I fly.

In my class we had several (3) flight instructors with over 1000 hours total time going through the program to get the 121 experience and turbine time. They did no better in the academics/sim than those of us with less time. As a matter of fact, in my class, some of us with the lower times finished the class above the flight instructors. It comes down to the individual.

This is a good point, although it was made inadvertently.

Those three instructors are a part of what statisticians call a self-selected group, which means that these three instructors who demonstrated mediocre performance may have decided to go the PFT route because they had been mediocre instructors, too. At any rate, they wanted to buy experience instead of being hired, trained, and working in order to attain it.

That is the bone most of us have to pick with PFT.

Not bitterness.

Not envy.

Just anger at the exploitation of pilots, who lower the professionalism of our industry.

That from a pilot who first set foot in an aircraft forty years ago, and who has learned a little about the world in the process.

You can take that for what ever it is worth to you.

 

[B52GUNNER]

Your points are well taken.

I did not say that YOU were bitter, only that there were some posts from others that I have read over the past year or so that are.

I also have seen that you have recently got your Lear Job. Congratulations. I have several friends that fly lears and love it. I am sure you will to.

One last thing and I will shut up on the matter. As I said before that I have been on the other side of aviation for the last 15 years, do you not think that there are people there that so called "Cut in front of you" in the business world. At the 4 companies I have worked for (you would probably know them all) would bring in people from other companies....or off the street in front of people that are in line for jobs. It is not just the Pilot career that this is a problem.

He!! I wish all of us had jobs. I may not have one flying in the future... but in that event I can always fall back on the maintenance side. I would know that at least for a little while this 35 year old had a shot at my dream.

Good luck to all.

 

[Timebuilder]

I wish all of you new hires well. It is too late to change your course now, so I hope you all make the most of your opportunity.

52, you are fortunate indeed to have learned about the "other side" of aviation. It will serve you well if your pilot job falls through. I tell everyone I can to have a "Plan B".

Good luck, and once again, Happy New Year..

 

[blade230]

With regards to senior captains approving this route or not, some do, as I am related to four of them for four different airlines, who told me to come this route, They ARE on the interviewing boards for their respective airlines, all of them.

With regards to college. I did go. I got ripped off there too, but was well educated.(ERAU).

My parents did not pay a cent for GIA. I paid it on my own from my previous job. They did HELP (not all, or even close to it) with Riddle.

With regard to instructing, I respect it, and have many friends doing it, and they all know their sh*t very well. But I know some sh*t too. I am not better than them, and vice versa. We are learning in different ways, that's all.

GIA offers no gurantee on anything, don't let them tell you different. Luck plays a major role, as does hard work and timing. Many (MANY) at GIA will not be nearly as lucky as I have been. And that is a shame.

Good luck to everybody in this harsh environment

p.s. Those who wish to trash me now, please go ahead.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!

 

[B52GUNNER]

CONGRATS BLADE.


I am pretty sure who you are and if so you know me. Glad you made it. EYW paid off.

See you soon.

 

[Timebuilder]

Blade 230, clearly you do not fit the outline I mentioned. Good for you. Do well.

N9, life is full of many choices. The fact that there are varying opinions, even among senior captains, does not necessarily mean that the choices have equivalent value.

The captains who first counciled me about PFT are long retired. Perhaps there is a "sea change" in opinion in the upper echelons of the shrinking "major" carriers. Perhaps you have found a pocket of captains who feel positively about PFT. I can't answer that.

Curiously, one of the current captains that counseled me to avoid PFT is a 747 captain for UPS. Go Brown!

While I would not say that any and all bridge program pilots are unsafe, I would say that experience is built over time. Less time, less expereince. It is a different argument if we discuss how much experience is a good idea under current operating rules.

Good luck. Frankly, I hope this doesn't catch on again among regionals like it did in the nineties. There are many furloughed pilots who should be at the head of the line at Pinnacle.

 

[KingAirer]

Senior Capts dont care b.c they are capts already. THey have nothing to lose. It would be like me saying i dont care if they raise the driving age to 21. Doesnt effect me either way.

As for pinnacle allowing this, i guess they are getting the perfect employee, someone willing to pay for the job that they are doing and are willing to step on pilot to have their job, just what they are looking for. A "yes" man. IM sure they are also getting money from GIA for this.

I am truly sorry for the Pinnacle pilots that are not GIA grads that get there name muddied up b/c of this.

 

[Timebuilder]

I know what you mean about flying from the tail!!!! It's a wake up call when rotation speed is faster than a 172 in a dive!

Good luck.