45milion$ question to delta pilots

[Tank Commander]

just wondering, what you guys what you guys think about your company promising 45,000,000 dollars in retention bonuses to regional airline pilots. especially so close to your negotiations starting next month?

 

[General Lee]

just wondering, what you guys what you guys think about your company promising 45,000,000 dollars in retention bonuses to regional airline pilots. especially so close to your negotiations starting next month?

So, you think most of the pilots will stick around that long to collect? I bet they don't give out half of that. Pilots will make more money "over a lifetime" if they leave earlier and get on with a big 3 airline or a good LCC sooner, and I think most of the DCI pilots know that. Only lifers will stay and collect the full amount.


Also, with $5 billion possible next year in pre tax income, they can afford it. It won't take a dime out of DL mainline pilot profit sharing, the amount given to the mainline pilots is based off of the total income made prior to paying out things like that. It sounds like another "expense" needed to keep the business running.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tank Commander]

you think most of the pilots will stick around that long to collect? : No I don't

It won't take a dime out of DL mainline pilot profit sharing : You must have forgot who RA is.

GL, was asking the Delta pilots.... you being anonymous and all, but thanks for your in put.

 

[General Lee]

you think most of the pilots will stick around that long to collect? : No I don't

It won't take a dime out of DL mainline pilot profit sharing : You must have forgot who RA is.

GL, was asking the Delta pilots.... you being anonymous and all, but thanks for your in put.

"You must have FORGOT who RA is..." Uhhhhhh, say what? Good luck with your question, and make sure you verify every supposed DL pilot's credentials after they respond! (On an anonymous board no less!).

The $45 million "expense" is really a "one time charge." Really, it may happen only "one time." Pilots who stay for the cash are missing out on longevity pay at a better airline. But, for lifers, that doesn't matter...



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Delta is doing what they believe is necessary to protect their operation.

I'd rather see the $45 million used to establish large RJ/additional small narrow body flying at mainline, but I believe that game goes way beyond simple short term economics for management.

At the same time, sending additional money toward the 9E pilots is still probably cheaper than reallocating that flying to SkyWest or ASA.

It's awfully hard to form a complete rationale for the program with only seeing a piece of the puzzle.

 

[Tank Commander]

Thanks! Good insight.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Now what about the big announcement this morning? Wow!

 

[xjhawk]

The retention bonus was designed for the first officers to keep them from going to other regionals that compete with the flying that Delta pays their kicking toy Endeavor to do. American regionals are offering better pay, quick upgrades, and even flows to American while Endeavor is offering them the lowest pay while being told they should feel lucky to be flying a plane with Delta colors on them. Lets not forget the one level of service we are offering our passengers at a ALPA sponsored discounted rate to support the Delta profit monster you all love so much. The retention program, from what I have heard in the crew rooms and FO's I have flown with is not working that well. The ones who have well off spouses and have a very serious goal of working at Delta because they love and call home MSP, DTW or ATL are the ones who would be staying anyways-all the others are leaving. I heard 71 left in November alone and December has two classes to fill at PSA, many of which are coming from Endeavor Air. The program just might keep a couple captains past September to get the first bonus who were thinking of bailing to go to Spirit or JetBlue just to get away from being treated like a second class pilot and are scared of Delta selling or shutting down Endeavor because their big experiment has failed. The bonus money will be great seed money to make up first year pay at those national carriers.

My question is this, what scope is the Delta pilot group going to recapture (or give away) in your upcoming pilot contract negotiations? With United being rumored to be pulling their CRJ 900's in house by 2017 to assure staffing those planes, what is Delta's plan to make sure their regionals are staffed? Are the 900's too small for a Delta pilot to touch? Will Delta keep offering to Endeavor pilots deals like the SSP (which was grossly misrepresented by Delta and ALPA to the pilot group when we voted on it), and the E2D program that was a complete failure in terms of hiring at Endeavor and keeping it staffed?

Now our SSP pool pilots with CJO's at Delta will be sitting in the pool for so long, some will be losing a 1,000 seniority numbers because of Endeavor Air's staffing issues (Endeavor will not release the pilots to keep the company staffed). Many of which will leave to another major if offered a class date before one at Delta.

 

[General Lee]

The retention bonus was designed for the first officers to keep them from going to other regionals that compete with the flying that Delta pays their kicking toy Endeavor to do. American regionals are offering better pay, quick upgrades, and even flows to American while Endeavor is offering them the lowest pay while being told they should feel lucky to be flying a plane with Delta colors on them. Lets not forget the one level of service we are offering our passengers at a ALPA sponsored discounted rate to support the Delta profit monster you all love so much. The retention program, from what I have heard in the crew rooms and FO's I have flown with is not working that well. The ones who have well off spouses and have a very serious goal of working at Delta because they love and call home MSP, DTW or ATL are the ones who would be staying anyways-all the others are leaving. I heard 71 left in November alone and December has two classes to fill at PSA, many of which are coming from Endeavor Air. The program just might keep a couple captains past September to get the first bonus who were thinking of bailing to go to Spirit or JetBlue just to get away from being treated like a second class pilot and are scared of Delta selling or shutting down Endeavor because their big experiment has failed. The bonus money will be great seed money to make up first year pay at those national carriers.

My question is this, what scope is the Delta pilot group going to recapture (or give away) in your upcoming pilot contract negotiations? With United being rumored to be pulling their CRJ 900's in house by 2017 to assure staffing those planes, what is Delta's plan to make sure their regionals are staffed? Are the 900's too small for a Delta pilot to touch? Will Delta keep offering to Endeavor pilots deals like the SSP (which was grossly misrepresented by Delta and ALPA to the pilot group when we voted on it), and the E2D program that was a complete failure in terms of hiring at Endeavor and keeping it staffed?

Now our SSP pool pilots with CJO's at Delta will be sitting in the pool for so long, some will be losing a 1,000 seniority numbers because of Endeavor Air's staffing issues (Endeavor will not release the pilots to keep the company staffed). Many of which will leave to another major if offered a class date before one at Delta.

First of all XJ, I can see you are upset, and that's actually understandable. You guys have been put through a lot. Some of your left over flow through pilots did go directly to DL at the beginning of this year (Mesaba pilots), and the remaining pilots in the Compass flow up will be flowing up within the next two years (120 max per year). After that is finished, I don't know what the interviewers and HR will do, but I would think that when things really do get "tight" in the hiring side, I would think that taking pilots from your own feed source, when they can't already find enough of their own new hires, might not be.....prudent?

It looks like AA is offering a few of their regionals flow up opportunities, especially Envoy, but they only guaranteed them a certain number of E175s, and the rest is "nebulous" at best. They are keeping rates low, and giving a chance at a flow up if you stick around long enough.

I certainly don't speak for any particular pilot group, but I don't think any mainline pilot group will take concessions to bring on a Regional pilot group and their planes to one list. That will be a function of management getting desperate and wanting a pipeline and feed to stick around. By the end of the decade, that probably will occur at all 3 legacies. If you stick around at your regional and pass up opportunities at others, that's your decision, but you're losing out on longevity elsewhere and years of higher wages and retirement contributions that could help you later on.


My advice, apply at all 3 legacies, SWA, and other good LCCs. If you don't like it at the next job, keep applying and move up the ladder to your dream job.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Carl_Spackler]

I don't think the $45 million (or less) will cost DL anything in terms of profitability. Every dollar they spend on retention payments will payback at least a dollar. They need RJ feed to connect pax to mainline flights. Reduced RJ feed equals lower revenue and leads to less profit. There is no other way DL would offer this unless they benefited from it as well.