3 IFR Ques.

[your_dreamguy]

Just wanted to refresh myself and verify that I have proper info.

1) While inbound on a non-precision approach, let's say you need to go missed approach, you would fly at or above the MDA, proceed to the MAP and execute the missed approach. On a non-precision approach, the MAP is usually clearly defined...like a DME distance or timing. However, what do you do in the situation on an ILS? The ILS MAP is the DH. So, if you're inbound on the ILS and need to execute a missed approach early, do you still fly to the DH and do the missed approach procedure or can you maintain a track above DH, proceed to the LOC MAP and then execute the published missed?

2) Let's say you're at airport ABC and get an IFR clearance to airport XYZ. You're clearance limit is to airport XYZ. Some time period later, you're now airborne and in the vicinity of airport XYZ and approach clears you for an insturment approach into airport XYZ. Does your clearance limit change (once you're cleared for the appch) from airport XYZ to the missed appch holding fix for airport XYZ? I think it does.

3) Followup on question 2. Same situation, etc. you're cleared for the approach. You can go visual and are assigned a visual appch. For some reason, you need to go missed and are headed back into the soup. Where is your clearance limit then? I would think if you go visual, you need to stay VFR or request another clearance. If you loose your radio, you would execute the published missed approach for an approach you were expecting, prior to accepting the visual approach, hold at the missed approach holding fix.

Your 2 cents, please?

 

[Vector4fun]

I'll pass on question #1 and let one of the current 135/121 experts handle that.

#2. I would say you could certainly make that case.

Quoting from the 7110.65

4-8-9. MISSED APPROACH

Except in the case of a VFR aircraft practicing an instrument approach, an approach clearance automatically authorizes the aircraft to execute the missed approach procedure depicted for the instrument approach being flown. An alternate missed approach procedure as published on the appropriate FAA Form 8260 or appropriate military form may be assigned when necessary. Once an aircraft commences a missed approach, it may be radar vectored.

#3. There is no "missed approach" procedure from a visual approach. It's treated as a simple go-around.

Quote:

7-4-1. VISUAL APPROACH

A visual approach is an ATC authorization for an aircraft on an IFR flight plan to proceed visually to the airport of intended landing; it is not an instrument approach procedure. Also, there is no missed approach segment. An aircraft unable to complete a visual approach shall be handled as any go-around and appropriate separation must be provided.

 

[minitour]

Just passed my checkride tonight so I'll give 'em a try. (1.4 1.2 actual and ICING ooooh!)

1. The MAP is the MAP. Unless you're using station passage as the missed approach point you're using timing. Once you pass the FAF, start your time! Just because you have the glide slope right now doesn't mean you won't lose it 2 seconds after the FAF. Then how do you know when you go missed? Time it, please. You'll be a lot happier (and so will the examiner when he says "oh hey guess what, I just put the LOC on Nav 2 and its got no GS, so what are you doing?")

2. Sure, but why would it matter? You're on an Instrument Approach Procedure assigned for that particular airport. Part of the IAP is the missed approach segment. If you have to go missed and they don't give you vectors, you need to fly the missed as published. Now what do you do if you lose comms after going missed? You're flying the missed as published (assigned route/altitude per 91.185). You just hold at the fix and shoot the approach again OR proceed to your alternate (if you filed one / needed one)

3. If you can't maintain visual with the airport on a visual approach, you need to tell someone so they can give you another approach (ILS, VOR, NDB, etc.) However, that said...I agree with Vector4fun for the most part on going missed as just a go-around. I will say that in my IFR training, we had to go around (runway incursion - someone heard "hold short" and thought "position and hold") on a visual appraoch after one of our cross country flights. We were actually given climbout instructions. Somethng like "Cessna 123 go around, maintain 3,000 turn left heading XXX contact departure". So I'd assume that depending on the traffic and the flow at the time you may end up at the end of the line somewhere for another visual. The norm? Probably not, but it can happen. At that point, if we went back into IMC and lost comms, I'd probably pull out the ILS plate and hold at the FAF for a few minutes until ATC got the idea...then shoot the approach. When you break out, look for the gun (unless you squawk 7700 like some say to do then just land since its your airport).

Anyway...thats what I got from the examiner during oral, checkride, and post flight. Hope that helps.

-mini

PS
*disclaimer* If you're looking for 121/135 stuff, disregard. I'm basing this all on what I got from Part 91.

 

[avbug]

YD,

In response to your first question, imagine what you might do if you flew the ILS with the glide slope inoperative. It's still an ILS, but for practical purposes, you are flying a localizer-only approach. There is no glideslope to follow to decision altitude. There is always another way of identifying the missed approach point.

If you elect to go missed before reaching the missed approach point, you should not descend any more. My preference if that decision is made early enough, is to descend no lower than the non-precision or circling minimums. You can climb right up to the altitude specified for the missed approach instructions. Fly to the non-precision missed approach point specified for that proceedure, and commence the missed approach proceedure.

You should always brief yourself on the non-precision missed approach point when you conduct your approach review or briefing. Include it as part of the rundown for your chart.

On question 2, from a practical stance, your clearance limit is irrelevant. If you lose your radio, you're going to execute the missed, squwk 7600, and follow the best course of action available to you. Upon application of your squawk, the controllers will be aware of your status. Depending on the business of the airspace where this occurs, you may be better off setting yourself up for another shot at the approach or a different one, if you have a chance. If you were at minimums with no hope, then you should consider flying to your alternate.

Question 3; the controller doesn't want you tying up any more airspace than necessary; get on the ground. Squawk 7600 and come back again for another shot if it presents your best choice of field. If not, proceed elsewhere, either to visual conditions of available, or to your alternate. As vector4fun noted, there is no missed approach proceedure...you don't have one to fly. If you've been cleared for the visual but couldn't keep visual, and then go IMC, you may have had the foresight to have set yourself up on the approach anyway...in that case, I would follow the missed approach proceedure anyway. If not too congested, after applying the NoRad squawk (7600), I'd return to try it again if it were an option. Otherwise, I'd head for the alternate.

If no lost comm existed, and if I had a choice of avoiding the instrument conditions, I'd act to avoid those conditions again, until receiving a clearance to the contrary, or a radar vector.

 

[PropsForward]

Answer to #1. Pretty simple. Once you have decicde to go missed (for whatever reason). Track the LOC to the MAP then execute your missed approach instructions. If you are below the MDA on the glide slop and decide to go missed, then climb to MDA while tracking the LOC to the MAP. It is important that you not turn prior the MAP as you will be unprotected and could end up flying in an obstruction.

Answer to #2. Has already been addressed.

Answer to #3. While I am sure someone can come up with a good war story here. The secret to this scenario is that in order for a controller to offer you a visual approach there must be VFR weather at the airport. There should not be any reason or need to execute a missed approach in this situation and at worst, you would just have a go-around. On a go-around, just come around and attempt the landing again, it is part of the visual approach.

 

[FN FAL]

Your 2 cents, please?

Ok...two cents worth, there will be alot of guys who will be able to help your answer your three quesitions. But here is the trick, whenever someone wants to ask me three questions, I always tell them..."OK, I'll answer your three questions, but only if you answer my one question first?"

They usually go, "OK!"

So I ask them, "What absolutely, positively, must be in operation...in order to do timed approaches from a holding fix?"

That's usually like handing them a nice warm cup of "STFU!" but not always.

 

[minitour]

...
So I ask them, "What absolutely, positively, must be in operation...in order to do timed approaches from a holding fix?"
...

uh...a control tower...duh?

-mini