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24 off in 7 days

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Mike man

Funk Master Flex
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Posts
1,387
i know this is the wrong place for this but...i need an answer fast:

I need 24 hours off in 7 days...this is day 6, can I fly past 11:59PM tonight?

Company says yes, because I was not scheduled to fly more than 6, I'm pretty sure that is wrong...end of day 6 with no 24 hours off is a drop dead time...right?
 
Did your duty start at midnight on day 1? If not, I think you're legal, unless your contract is more strict (i.e. 1 calendar day off every 7 days).
 
Regarding regulatory compliance, as long as you have a rolling 24 hour period free of duty within any 7 day period, you're legal. Yes, this means that you could actually work 10 to 14 days straight, as well as within every 7 days there is a 24 hour period free, i.e. 3pm to 3pm.

Contractually is a totally different story. Many pilot groups have a "calendar day" definition in their contracts, meaning a complete Sunday, complete Monday, etc. There are even some groups that have a clause requiring that off day be in Domicile.

Hope this helps.

LTG
 
i know this is the wrong place for this but...i need an answer fast:

I need 24 hours off in 7 days...this is day 6, can I fly past 11:59PM tonight?

Company says yes, because I was not scheduled to fly more than 6, I'm pretty sure that is wrong...end of day 6 with no 24 hours off is a drop dead time...right?

You need to refuse that trip, now!
 
Spirit?? His post did say he had no 24-hour off period, not calendar day. So I’m guessing he understands the difference. My take on it is,

If the original trip given to you was to end by 1159 on day 6 but was delayed due to unforeseen conditions, then you would be legal to start legal to finish.

If the trip was modified or added to after you started the trip, or you went to the hotel for normal rest to then show on day 7, then it would be an illegal pairing.

Correction after re reading your post. So were you reserve for 6 days but not used? if so still illegal because they can't go back in time to change a scheduled period into an unscheduled period just because you didn't fly.
 
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Unless you are attending training, deadheading or are on reserve, you must be free of all duty on calendar day 7. I doubt "legal to start" would apply.

From ALPA's Guide to Flight and Duty Times:

III. SEVEN-DAY REST REQUIREMENT
The rule has a requirement that flight crewmembers engaged in scheduled air transportation be given 24 consecutive hours free of duty every seven days. This requirement extends to regional operators. These provisions [FAR 121.471(d) and 135.265(d)] read:
FAR 121.471(d) provides:
Each certificate holder conducting domestic operations shall relieve each flight crewmember engaged in scheduled air transportation from all further duty for at least 24 consecutive hours during any 7 consecutive days.
FAR 135.265(d) provides:
Each certificate holder shall relieve each flight crewmember engaged in scheduled air transportation from all further duty for at least 24 consecutive hours during any 7 consecutive days.
In interpreting this provision, the “seven consecutive days” are calendar days while the “24 consecutive hours” are only 24 hours, which may extend over two calendar days.
The FAA has consistently interpreted this provision to be a flight-time limitation, not a duty-time limitation. Its purpose is to insure that a flight crewmember is adequately rested prior to flying as a crewmember in scheduled air transportation. Therefore, this provision is violated only if the crewmember is used in scheduled air transportation without having had relief from duty for 24 consecutive hours during any seven consecutive days.The following are some of the frequently asked questions concerning this provision.
Q-38. If I am scheduled to fly for six days, can I be scheduled for training on the seventh day?
A-38. Yes. An air carrier is permitted to assign a crewmember to training or other non-flight (duty aloft) duties without first giving 24 hours free of duty. However, before the air carrier can again use the crewmember in scheduled air transportation, you must be given 24 hours free from all duty.
Q-39. If I am scheduled to fly for six days, can I deadhead as a crewmember on the seventh day?
A-39. Yes. However, after the deadheading, 24 hours of rest would be required before you could be returned to flight duties.
Q-40. Can I deadhead on Day One and be scheduled for flight duties for the next six days? 16
June 2004
A-40. No. The flight crewmember could not be assigned flight duties on the seventh day because the seven-day period does not contain 24 hours free of duty.
Q-41. Can I be assigned four days of training followed by three days of flight duties?
A-41. No. As in the above example, the seven-day period did not contain 24 hours free of duty.
Q-42. Can I be assigned to reserve status during a 24-consecutive-hour rest period?
A-42. Yes. Duty as provided by FAR 121.471(d) does not include time spent by a flight crewmember in reserve status and a crewmember may be assigned to such reserve duty on the seventh day providing you are not actually placed on duty aloft. Before you could be given a flight assignment, you would have to be given 24 hours free of all duty.
 
At what time did you start the first day? The rule says 7 days but it really means, you must have 24 hours off in the preceding 168.

Yes, 'legal to start, legal to finish' applies - as long as you were legal to start the last day as it was scheduled.
 
It makes no difference what time you start on day 1. Even though the reg says in 7"consecutive days" the FAA has long interpreted this as "calendar days" so after midnight day 6 you should not go unless you had the 24 hours off somewhere in the previous 6.
 
The rule says 7 days but it really means, you must have 24 hours off in the preceding 168.
.

ALPA, and the FAA, don't seem to agree with you.
 
(d) Each certificate holder conducting domestic operations shall relieve each flight crewmember engaged in scheduled air transportation from all further duty for at least 24 consecutive hours during any 7 consecutive days.

(e) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may assign any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept assignment to any duty with the air carrier during any required rest period.


These pretty much cover it. Doesn't matter what time you start on day 1. You look back 7 days and don't see 24hrs off, you're not legal. Your scheduler will tell you you're legal and then hang your arse with a self disclosure when you do it. Their job is to change the board from red to green and they don't care how they do it.
 
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24 hours off is 24 hours off. It is not a calendar day.
 
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wow...thanks.

I posted it for a friend who was in a jam...ALPA's official answer is legal to start, legal to finish. Provided the delay is outside of the control of they company (wx) and not a reschedule.

And the 7 days is calendar days not a rolling 168 hours...the 24 hours of consecutive rest can span two calendar days.
 

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