24 more pilots for ASa

[damnflyboy]

The senior First Officer nappers won't come to work. They'll just drop their non-CDO trips and work more in their other day jobs---or suckle from their sugar-mammas for awhile until this blows over. ( or should I say IF this blows over )

 

[777forever]

Yes, 777Forever is too drunk on the company koolaid to understand this fact. He will be sitting on his leather bum for at least 6-7 years throwing gear before he can hold captain. It's ok though, PBS is AWESOME and he is off reserve!!! It will be really funny to see his reaction when there is a mass exodus from the 700 to the 200 in ATL due to a reduction in lines with a DTW 700 base opening.

I would say that on average PBS will delay upgrades by 12-18 months. Obviously this is just an educated guess and there are many factors besides PBS that come into play with upgrades.

The company will offer 12 new captain vacancies for 4 new airplanes coming. We are hiring 24 people to cover for the new airplanes and attrition.

As far as I am concerned a joint contract with the XJT and an opt out of PBS can't come soon enough.

Oh pleez! The effects of age 65 is about to run out the the majors will start hiring for retirements. ASA will soon be back to losing 30 pilots a month

 

[Nevets]

Oh pleez! The effects of age 65 is about to run out the the majors will start hiring for retirements. ASA will soon be back to losing 30 pilots a month

Even if your premise is true, it's irrelevant to the point and doesnt refute anything.

 

[777forever]

Even if your premise is true, it's irrelevant to the point and doesnt refute anything.

Your point is that PBS slows down upgrade. This is true. What also slows upgrade even more is a regional that costs so much more than its competition that no additional flying is assigned to them or flying is taken away from them, or they have to bid on flying at a loss to keep leased airplanes in the air. Didn't the CHQ 44 plane episode, or the DAL LAX flying teach you guys anything?

 

[DYLIN]

Your point is that PBS slows down upgrade. This is true. What also slows upgrade even more is a regional that costs so much more than its competition that no additional flying is assigned to them or flying is taken away from them, or they have to bid on flying at a loss to keep leased airplanes in the air. Didn't the CHQ 44 plane episode, or the DAL LAX flying teach you guys anything?

You're really clueless in the last sentence here, AGAIN.

The first part of your post has nothing to do with the last part.

 

[Flybywire44]

Your point is that PBS slows down upgrade. This is true. What also slows upgrade even more is a regional that costs so much more than its competition that no additional flying is assigned to them or flying is taken away from them, or they have to bid on flying at a loss to keep leased airplanes in the air. Didn't the CHQ 44 plane episode, or the DAL LAX flying teach you guys anything?

I'm glad ASA found a way to save money. I'm just sorry that it is again coming out of career expectations. Age 65, High Oil, Recession, PBS, endless pressue to relax scope for whipsawing… I suppose it could be worse. At least the current generation of soon to upgrade did not get hit with 9-11. —Fingers crossed that we never see anything like that again.

Personally, its ironic to stare the upgrade in the face for so many years. Still, it beats working!

 

[Nevets]

Your point is that PBS slows down upgrade. This is true.

Thank you for finally admitting this. But again, everything else you wrote, even if it was true, which it isn't, is irrelevant and does not refute anything. Which you obviously agree in you conceding my point.

Just so we are clear, everyone talks about how tons of pilots now are line holders but no one ever talks about the other side of that equation. The senior FO who was about to upgrade is now still an line holding FO. The junior FO who is now a line holder is now that much farther from upgrading.

 

[Plainsman]

Feel sorry for those that were on reserve for so long, but those who are elated about getting a line cannot see the forrest for the trees. Short term gain, long term loss. I thank you guys and girls who raised hell at the company though, alpa wouldnt do it. Yall helped the ones who will come after you. It will get better for everyone at some point. One more thing PBS is a bad thing at our company. It will only get better if we controlled the pairings. One more thing, why does the union have to sell us on these crummy rules comming down the pipe. If you guys ever lose your flying jobs at least you can fall back on used car sales. I think it is a pbs issue and yes it does suck and you guys did a lousy job getting it out, no matter how much you want to pat yourself on your back. What was the freakin rush. Yes, I know how to bid. O and we were sold way back when that performance plus was going to be 5% of our pay. Nice. To expressjet guys you will serve yourselves well if you don't vote PBS in, no matter how hard they say they worked on it or how much they spent on it. There has been alot of taking by ASA no matter how much they sugar coat things.

 

[777forever]

Thank you for finally admitting this. But again, everything else you wrote, even if it was true, which it isn't, is irrelevant and does not refute anything. Which you obviously agree in you conceding my point.

Just so we are clear, everyone talks about how tons of pilots now are line holders but no one ever talks about the other side of that equation. The senior FO who was about to upgrade is now still an line holding FO. The junior FO who is now a line holder is now that much farther from upgrading.

Growth my friend, is a much bigger factor in upgrade time than bidding system. Eagle got 25 more 700s and there upgrade is now faster than nearly everybody. If ASA get 25 more airplanes all this upgrade is slowed talk goes completely out the window.

I would much rather get more upgrades through growth from being an efficient and competitively priced company than running a high cost unefficient company just to squeeze out more upgrades. The latter is short term thinking.

Besides, XJT opened ORD, ASA opened IAD, and will soon open DTW. More bases=more pilots required so there are at least some of your upgrades back

 

[Nevets]

Growth my friend, is a much bigger factor in upgrade time than bidding system. Eagle got 25 more 700s and there upgrade is now faster than nearly everybody. If ASA get 25 more airplanes all this upgrade is slowed talk goes completely out the window.

I would much rather get more upgrades through growth from being an efficient and competitively priced company than running a high cost unefficient company just to squeeze out more upgrades. The latter is short term thinking.

Besides, XJT opened ORD, ASA opened IAD, and will soon open DTW. More bases=more pilots required so there are at least some of your upgrades back

Great! Let's all go back to first year FO pay, min days off, 75 hours pay, no 401k matching, no B fund, no sick bank, no vacation and then all pilots on property will be $30/hr captains! Sorry, I don't want to take another concession for "promised" growth, assuming I even want growth at the regionals which I definitely don't.

Bases opening or closing is irrelevant and does not refute my point. But go ahead and throw something else out there that has nothing to do with my original point.

This is a cancer mentality.

 

[777forever]

Great! Let's all go back to first year FO pay, min days off, 75 hours pay, no 401k matching, no B fund, no sick bank, no vacation and then all pilots on property will be $30/hr captains! Sorry, I don't want to take another concession for "promised" growth, assuming I even want growth at the regionals which I definitely don't.

Bases opening or closing is irrelevant and does not refute my point. But go ahead and throw something else out there that has nothing to do with my original point.

This is a cancer mentality.

I said "competitively" priced not "ridiculously" priced. Going by your theory I could swing back the other way and say "Great! Let's all ask for 80k first year FO pay, 18 days of min, 100% 401k matching up to 40%, unlimited sick bank, 3 months of vacation, and $200/hr captains!"

This is an ignorant mentality

Nevets, you need to learn to be reasonable. If it was up to you the merger would have failed due to your "one list" views. Thankfully your MEC is a little more level headed.

 

[Nevets]

I said "competitively" priced not "ridiculously" priced. Going by your theory I could swing back the other way and say "Great! Let's all ask for 80k first year FO pay, 18 days of min, 100% 401k matching up to 40%, unlimited sick bank, 3 months of vacation, and $200/hr captains!"

This is an ignorant mentality

Nevets, you need to learn to be reasonable. If it was up to you the merger would have failed due to your "one list" views. Thankfully your MEC is a little more level headed.

The thing is that we already get paid crap for what we do! I'm not asking for all those things you wrote. I'm just asking to KEEP what we already have! I know that $80k and our benefits is definitely not enough pay for a captain. So yeah, PBS is another concession that is not something I want, even if it means we are not competitive. But like I've said many times here before, until Skywest stops wasting money to run two separate airlines with two sets of everything including the handsomely paid upper, middle, and lower management, they can take their "remain cost competitive" crap and shove it.

It is not an ignorant mentality. I am perfectly ok walking away from the train wreck if that is what happens by not giving anymore.

As for one list, this is where you are ignorant like another poster said. The only reason XJT was losing money is because Skywest let CAL use them to whipsaw XJT into signing a CPA that Skywest had negotiated with CAL using Skywest pilot compensation. If Skywest would have walked away the 2nd time, I would have been PERFECTLY ok with taking my chances. Although I honestly don't think they would have. And even if they did, someone else would have bought us. But the reason why I would have been ok with my chances is precisely because of this conversation we are now having. People with your mentality always putting pressure on those of us who have drawn our line and are rather not do this for anything less.

Please don't do management's job for them. I understand its their job to squeeze every penny. Its our responsibility to get as much as possible and let management make it work.

Your welcome for the improved commuter clause as well.

 

[crj567]

T
It is not an ignorant mentality. I am perfectly ok walking away from the train wreck if that is what happens by not giving anymore.

100% Agreed. Some people here only are worried about getting off reserve or upgrading (or both.) They clearly should be more worried about will happen to them for the next decade if we don't fix this PBS fiasco now!

-What the hell use is getting off reserve if the majority of us are still stuck at @10 days off per month for 75 hours of pay anyhow? It can (and will) be that bad unless we put a stake through the heart of this horrid agreement!

-Anyone starting to believe me now? No? Just wait a couple more days until our "mutually agreeable" solution comes out...

 

[maxcackel]

100% Agreed. Some people here only are worried about getting off reserve or upgrading (or both.) They clearly should be more worried about will happen to them for the next decade if we don't fix this PBS fiasco now!

-What the hell use is getting off reserve if the majority of us are still stuck at @10 days off per month for 75 hours of pay anyhow? It can (and will) be that bad unless we put a stake through the heart of this horrid agreement!

-Anyone starting to believe me now? No? Just wait a couple more days until our "mutually agreeable" solution comes out...

Ha ha he said "mutually agreeable".... as if.