23 more 717s for Airtran

[Ty Webb]

I don't know what numbers our Company web site is using (probably LRC) but I generally see 303 indicated in the climb, and typical cruise is around 450-460 KTAS, or Mach .775

We do MSP-MCO and other three-hour-plus flights already, and, like I said, I don;t know too many people lining up to do more than 3 hrs in an RJ. As for the comfort level- to me, there is no comparison. The B717 is much quieter, when the gear cycles it doesn't sound like the spar just cracked, the overhead baggage compartments are cavernous, and I would much rather have full service from three F/A's than one poor F/A who seem to only hand out bottles of water, at least on the short flights I've been aboard.

I don't think you can say that Delta (or ASA) is competing against us- after all, we're making money, and they're losing $300 million plus per quarter.

TW

 

[~~~^~~~]

as I told you before a Crew Planner at Delta--not ASA, was just quoted as saying "We would love a 100 seater, need it now."

Your Crew Planning source is not wrong - I'm sure he would like a 100 seat jet. It is just that the VP of Finance, who actually negotiates and signs the deals says that the numbers don't work.

However, I have every expectation that your MEC will try to negotiate our 70 seat jets. Already, your MEC has announced intentions (via your VARS) to negotiate special employment rights for Delta pilots at ASA and Comair. They did this without bothering to talk to our MEC's, or our "Companies'" management. Candidly, I'm tired of ALPA claiming that we are three companies and ASA pilots can not negotiate with Delta, but at the same time your MEC can saunter right over here and begin negotiations to put your guys at ASA without our input.

TY WEB:

The RJ is artificially constrained on the routes it can fly by Section 1 of the Delta contract. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but less than 900 miles I think is the number. Strange that if I fly the airplane, it only goes 900 miles, if Admiral Lee up there is at the commands, it goes 2,200 miles.

Also, while Delta is performing poorly (and we are tied to their fortunes), ASA is making considerably more than Airtran. Again, I am not slamming Airtran, heck, I buy your stock any time is goes below $4 a share. The 717 is a perfect airplane for you, but Delta will lose their shirt is they fly it. Delta has priced itself (not just the pilots - ops also) out of the sub 150 seat market, their costs are too high to operate aircraft that small at a profit.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Boeing announced Airtran cancelled 9 orders, with the deal on the 22 leased ex TWA, ex AA aircraft. Airtran advises they will release 2004 fleet planning information about mid point of 03.

 

[E120ASA]

Hey, leave them alone and good luck. A great group of people and I wish them the best. As always, thanks for the ride.

 

[Ty Webb]

ASA is making considerably more than Airtran. Again, I am not slamming Airtran, heck, I buy your stock any time is goes below $4 a share. The 717 is a perfect airplane for you, but Delta will lose their shirt is they fly it.

I wasn't aware that ASA posts P&L numbers separately from Delta. Do you have the specific numbers to back up your statement? I think it would be hard to prove that "ASA is making considerably more money than AirTran". Sure, you're carrying nice loads of pax, but they are riding you on Delta's good name, in Delta's system, because of Delta's advertising, Delta's frequent flyer program, etc . . . . all of which cost money!

I also do not agree with you that our gate utilization is not economical compared to ASA. We're doing 152 departures a day, with the same number of gates as you. You'd have to do 375 departures a day out of ATL just to have the same number of ASM's coming out of an identical number of gates. How many departures are you guys doing out of ATL?

As for the AAI stock- they are calling for $.40 a share next year and $.60 by 2004 so I think the stock is a good buy, too.

In any event, good luck to you and everyone else on Ramp 3 and 4 . . . . .!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Ty: I did not say your gate utilization was inefficient, just that Delta can not make the numbers work.

ASA has to pay for Delta's services. You are correct that Delta does not report our numbers separately to shareholders. We are all part of the DAL symbol. Surprisingly, Delta has been candid with us about our position - even though we are going into contract negotiations. All together it is not much in the big Delta picture. Our revenues are a scant 4 to 5% of Bid D's. Since 01, here are our figures, in millions:
1Q01 7
2Q01 15
3Q01 11
4Q01 (14)
1Q02 3
2Q02 14

The DFW base loses money, so these figures are ATL profits, less DFW losses.

So, after retirements of DC-9's and the 9 orders that were (cancelled - deferred?) how many aircraft is Airtran going to be operating at the end of 03? I'm trying to figure out where your seniority list is heading by 2003-4.

Good luck to you guys - come fly with us, any open seat is a J/S!

Regards,
~~~^~~~

 

[Lumber Yak]

easyJet-style financing for Delta 717s

I don't believe Delta would "lose its shirt" flying the 717s. How can anyone suggest that when deals like the easyJet A319 deal in the UK are floating about? I think Delta's management is savvy enough to ensure that any new fleet type is properly financed to include expensive "transition costs." Both Boeing and Airbus would love to provide Delta with 100-seaters to ensure their production lines. As I recall, the 717 doesn't have that many customers beyond Airtran, Hawaiian and Midwest Express - right?

I think the 717 is a great aircraft. Recently flew on an Airtran 717 from Boston to Baltimore and the flight was excellent - very impressed with Airtran and its operation.

Cheers

 

[TWA Dude]

Don't forget that the ex-TWA birds have the aux tanks installed, too.

None of TWA's 717's had aux tanks. We had the standard three-tanks holding a max of 24,600 lb. We were certified for a max gross T/O weight of 118,000 lb although 121,000 was just a software change away. The longest scheduled flights we flew were STL-PHX which was 1450 SM.

I sorely miss my 717s, and after this week I'll even miss the MD80.

 

[Ty Webb]

None of TWA's 717's had aux tanks. We had the standard three-tanks holding a max of 24,600 lb. We were certified for a max gross T/O weight of 118,000 lb although 121,000 was just a software change away. The longest scheduled flights we flew were STL-PHX which was 1450 SM.

I sorely miss my 717s, and after this week I'll even miss the MD80.

The rumor floating around the line is that the TWA birds had the aux tanks- so that is what I was basing it on. Thanks for the info. Did you operate them out of Colorado Springs, and, if so, were there any problems coming out of there at normal weights?

I am awfully sorry to hear about your upcoming furlough. I hope you have some irons in the fire . . . . maybe a corporate gig? PM me if I can help.

As for the posts by the "attitude indicator" (sorry, I don;t even know how to make those symbols on my keyboard), we, too are wondering what the futur holds for our seniority numbers!

Reading through the press releases over the last few days, it looks like we will have 69 B717 by the end of 2003. After DC9 retirements, that would be a net gain of five airplanes over what we have right now.

Figure 69 a/c * 12 pilots per aircraft, and that would be 828 pilots, plus 25 for retirements, or a total of 853 - 760 now, for a net gain of 117 pilots.

Hopefully, we will add some more cities, more aircraft, and more pilots!

As for the RJ situation, looks like they are planning up to 10 RJ's in service in 2003. See the below info, from our recent SEC filings:

-- We reached an agreement with The Boeing Company for the delivery of 22
used and one new Boeing 717 aircraft during 2003. Boeing Capital
Corporation will finance all of the 2003 deliveries. The agreement
includes the return of aircraft deposits and restrictions regarding
additional debt.
-- By the end of 2003 we expect to operate up to ten regional jets under the
AirTran JetConnect brand.

 

[flx757]

Ty,

This from the most recent press release I could find:

CHICAGO, Oct 24 (Reuters) - Boeing Co. (BA), the world's No. 1 jet maker, said on Thursday that AirTran Airways (AAI) swapped nine unfilled orders for new 717s this week while confirming plans to lease 22 of the used narrowbody jetliners.

"Boeing made us a tremendous deal on these used airplanes," AirTran spokesman Tad Hutcheson said. "Some have been used two years and some have even only been painted and not flown so they are almost new."

At the end of next year, AirTran expects to have a fleet of 73 Boeing 717s with six options and 20 purchase rights, Hutcheson said. AirTran will not announce its fleet plans for 2004 until sometime next year, he said.


This would indicate 73 717s by the end of next year. (Just looking for the most optimistic outlook....based on my position on the seniority list )

Mr. Leonard told our new-hire class that they were looking into fitting 6-8 of these aircraft with aux tanks for longer haul routes. BTW...Keep that COS rumor going!! I like that one, a lot!!

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey, I like your numbers a lot better, too.

The two biggest rumors since I have been her have been COS and LAS. Some of the more elaborate versions of the rumors have banners at LAS ticket counters, and billboards up in COS, saying, "AirTran is coming!" but when I did a search in both cities newspapers under "AirTran", neither of them had a single reference to us, so it looks like they will continue to just be rumors.

Unfortunately, it looks like another ski season is going to come and go . . .. . (d'oh!).

How's your class doing? Are you guys doing IOE now?

 

[flx757]

Yep...those seem to be the 2 hottest rumors I get, as well. But from talking to some of the guys, those rumors have been around a while.

I'm not sure if everyone in done with IOE yet, but I finished up last week.