2000 Hours for the ATP

[Deftone45075]

Since I very rarely hear anyone discuss it:

The FARs say that if ALL the training is done in a simulator, the applicant for an ATP must have a minimum of 2000 hours. Now, if you are going for a type rating, and use the type ride for your ATP checkride (as is pretty common) than how is it done with 1500. The regs mention something about part 142, does it have to do with the certification of the training center?

 

[phishn@daves]

Hey do you have the means to post that reg.?

I want to see it so I can interpret it!

But, I think it has to do with ALL of your training, not just for the ATP!

 

[Deftone45075]

61.157 (g) use of a flight simulator or flight training device for an airplane rating. If a flight simulator or flight training device is used for accomplishing all of the training and the required practical test for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category, class, and type rating, if applicable, the applicant, flight simulator, and flight taining device are subject to the following requirements:

(3)(ii) Theapplicant must meet the aeronautical experience requirements of 61.159 of this part ad at least one of the following -

(A) Hold a type rating for a turbojet airplane of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought...

(B) Hold a type rating for a turbopropeller airplane of the same class for which the type rating is sought...

(C) Have at least 2000 hours of flight time, of which 500 hours must be in turbine powered airplanes of the same class for which...

 

[varicam]

FAR 61.157(g) requires additional experience for those applicants who want to do all training and checking (for the certificate or rating being sought) in a simulator. If an applicant has 2000 hours with 500 in a turbine airplane, the requirement is met. If not, there are several alternate ways to meet the requirement.

 

[501261]

This is the FAR that is the basis for putting the SOE (Supervised Operating Experience) requirement on a new type rating.

In your specific scenario if you do not meet 14 CFR 61.157(G)(3)(ii)(C), and do your training in the sim, you will get your ATP, but your type rating will have a 15 or 25 hour SOE limitation placed on it. Notice that these rules apply only in the simulator, if you do your type/ATP ride in the airplane these rules don't apply.

 

[avbug]

Deftone,

You're only looking at one part of the regulation. It does not state that you need 2,000 hours. It states that if you do all your training in a simulator, then you must meet one of the following requirements:

You must already hold a type rating for a turbojet airplane of the same class as the type sought.

Or, you must already hold a type rating for a turboprop airplane of the same class as the type sought.

Or, you must have at least 2,000 hours total time, with 500 hours of those in the class of airplane for which the type is sought.

Or, you must have 500 hours in the same type as the type rating sought.

Or, you must have at least 1,000 hours in at least two different airplanes requiring a type rating.

You need to look at the entire regulation, rather than just part of one subparagraph.

 

[Thedude]

Dig a little deeper on that one. There should be something in there about type ratings and what level of the sim that is being used. I know you can do a full type in the sim if it is lvl D with 0 hrs in the aircraft, not sure about lvl C though.


But dont forget that you can do an 80/20.
That is 80 % of the check ride in the sim and the other 20 % in the a/c. I have friends that have done it.

 

[Thedude]

Never mind the above post....I have been doing sixteen ounce curls and it shows.

 

[Deftone45075]

Avbug,

I am looking at more than one part of the regulation, and i'm aware of the exceptions. I am interested in discussing under what circumstances you are held to having 2000 hours, and i'm aware that their are other limitations and also that these parts of the reg do not apply under many situations.

Another question is about the certification of the training facility under 142 that is supposed to waive the need to have either the 2000 hours, or one of the other requirements. Does this mean facilities like Flight Safety, Simuflite, etc...?

 

[avbug]

Under what circumstances are you held to 2,000 hours? We just covered that. When you don't meet the other criteria. You need only meet one of them.

You're held to the 2,000 hours when you don't have a turbojet or turboprop rating inthe same class, and you don't have five hundred hours in the same type, and you don't have at least 1,000 hours in at least two aircraft requing a type.

In that case, if you want to do all your training in the sim, you need 2,000 hours and 500 in type. It's an either/or proposition, and that is only one qualifier. If you meet any of the other criteria, then you're not required to have the 2,000/500.

Part 142 means any facility that holds a 142 certificate, and are authorized for that particular course of instruction. Not all courses are authorized for sim-only, as the sim in use must meet particular criteria. While each of the major training companies hold Part 142 programs, not all their training programs may qualify for simulator-exclusive training.