200 in class B

[simbo]

Flying out of IAD the other day I was doing about 215 kias bout 1500 ft after t/o. The guy I was flying with mentioned my speed saying we are not out of "ata". I didnt think that appied to class B. I think he means the 2500 ft and 4 some miles from towered airport in class c/d. Does this apply to big class b airports? Just seeing what some of the airline guys do/think.


Thanks

 

[CA1900]

Flying out of IAD the other day I was doing about 215 kias bout 1500 ft after t/o. The guy I was flying with mentioned my speed saying we are not out of "ata".

Airport Traffic Areas haven't existed since we changed to the ICAO airspace classes in... what... 1993, I think it was?

I didnt think that appied to class B. I think he means the 2500 ft and 4 some miles from towered airport in class c/d. Does this apply to big class b airports? Just seeing what some of the airline guys do/think.

We do/think what's in the FARs. The 200-knot is, as you indicated, only applicable within 4nm of a Class C or D primary airport, below 2500 AGL. The regulation even specifically says, "This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area."

I've had a similar situation coming into a Class C primary airport, where as I cross the 10nm outer ring, I hear, "We have to be at 200 knots in Class C!" Uhh.... no.

I think your flying partner needs a re-read on 91.117.

 

[DrewBlows]

Airport Traffic Areas haven't existed since we changed to the ICAO airspace classes in... what... 1993, I think it was?

Lol, I was going to ask what an "ATA" was. Must be like a TCA?

 

[CA1900]

Lol, I was going to ask what an "ATA" was. Must be like a TCA?

Kinda...

ATA was roughly a Class D. ARSA (Airport Radar Service Area) is now Class C. TCA is Class B.

God I feel old...

 

[Geronimo4497]

Heck, you spent a whole time of time in NY. I think there are more TRSAs up that way than any other place in the country.

200 knots below the floor of the Bravo, sure. Otherwise: head up butt.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Never heard of ATA. Started flying just afte rthey redesigned the airspace designations.

But yeah, 250 in B, 200 under the shelf of B and 200 within 4 NM of C and D up to 2500'.

 

[CA1900]

...250 in B...

Minor nit, but no, not 250 in B. 250 below 10,000, yes. If you're going through ATL's Class B at 11,000 and you slow to 250, I'm gonna rear-end ya. Even in a Cessna.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Minor nit, but no, not 250 in B. 250 below 10,000, yes. If you're going through ATL's Class B at 11,000 and you slow to 250, I'm gonna rear-end ya. Even in a Cessna.

Sorry, I thought that was implied that one could traverse airspace at 250 below 10K.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

Drewblows...TCA is just like a TRSA or ARSA...however, you have to be in "Positive controlled airspace"... I think...

 

[avbug]

Never heard of ATA.

Makes me feel old, too. I still refer sometimes to Class D as an ATC, Class C as an ARSA or TRSA, and Class B as a TCA. I still occasionally refer to Class a as Positive Control Airspace (PCA). And yes, I still refer to the airport traffic area.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

Old...Orville Wright was my Co-pilot...however, his brother Wilbur had some problems drinking so I did'nt let him fly that much. Good kid, but he could'nt put the bottle down....

Simbo...might you have been under the Class B after Takeoff for a brief period ?

 

[bizjet800]

What do you guys make of the LVZ arrival into TEB? It says in bold letters something like, "you must keep your speed at 250 unless you advise of a slowdown." I have been on that arrival many times and, unless you have handheld Garmin that paints all that airspace, there isn't any way of knowing if you are in an ATA (I stil prefer that to Class D) and/or under the shelf of the Class B. I know you're supposed to have that Class B chart out, but seriously, who does that?

About every other time I go in there someone gets chewed out by NY approach for slowing. They want it both ways, but I guarantee you if something happens, they will hang you out to dry.

 

[CA1900]

I know you're supposed to have that Class B chart out, but seriously, who does that?

I do, as does pretty much every NJA guy I've flown with.

Any time we're going into an airport under Class B that's not the primary, we're checking that chart to get an idea of when we need to slow down.

 

[simbo]

yeah we were definately were still in B. the guy was an older fella probably was confused even when i brought it to his attention. thanks for replies.

 

[igneousy2]

What about clean maneuver? I know a lot of pilots fly at clean-maneuver instead of 200, where does this come from - can't find it in the regs.

 

[Singlecoil]

What about clean maneuver? I know a lot of pilots fly at clean-maneuver instead of 200, where does this come from - can't find it in the regs.

Read part D below.

§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.