20 years ago

[tzskipper]

04 December 1991 Pan Am shut down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_American_World_Airways

What a train wreck of an industry since then.

Have a nice day.

S

 

[Ty Webb]

Branniff, Eastern, Pan Am, Midway, TWA, ATA, and Midwest, not to mention the furloughees who have been out for a decade from AMR, UAL, and others . . . . . it's been two very ugly decades for many pilots.

 

[Dan Roman]

In the 60's Pan Am and TWA were the industry leaders. In the 70's the most profitable airline was...... Braniff. Back than most of the domestic flying was done by airlines like Hughes Airwest, Ozark, Allegheny, Piedmont, PSA, North Central etc etc. These original regional airlines were considered just as good a career choice as what was called the Trunk carriers (UAL DAL CO Western etc.) or the International carriers (PanAm and TWA). SWA, PSA and AirCal were called intra state airlines as they could not fly out side of the borders of their respective states! Now 50% of domestic flying is done by contract RJ's by airlines that are not considered equal career choices.
At one point in the 80's Eastern was the largest US carrier. Delta used to be the airline were everyone was family and could boast that they never furloughed. Piedmont and USAir were two of the most profitable airlines in the industry, they also were two of the best airlines to work for with top of the industry payscales. As soon as both these industry powerhouses merged they started spiraling downhill.
Here in Hawaii, in 1991 Aloha was the strong well run profitable operation and Hawaiian was just barely hanging on. We all know UAL of the 90's vs the next decade.
I could go on and on, but just to throw in a little controversy, don't forget that all the pilot's that lived that era and had their pensions disappear into corporate bonus's and payouts are now being called greedy for flying to 65 by a some junior pilots who want to upgrade NOW!

 

[Flopgut]

I could go on and on, but just to throw in a little controversy, don't forget that all the pilot's that lived that era and had their pensions disappear into corporate bonus's and payouts are now being called greedy for flying to 65 by a some junior pilots who want to upgrade NOW!

All the pilots that lived that era??!! All of them Dan? As I've pointed out to you many times, my father lost a pension in that era you describe and they didn't raise the age for him. Matter of fact, guys like you who were junior back then made certain they didn't even get jobs.

65 is done. We're only 12 months from retirements starting again. Has it been enough? Old guys ought to be counting this down with the entire group. Instead old guys like you continue to gripe and complain like you are still waiting for some relief. What else does the world owe your generation?

 

[Candide]

Pan Am's demise truly is an extremely sad chapter in aviation history.

Dan Roman: fair enough. Here are some other versions of your statement that are equally as true and probably more germane:

"...don't forget that all the pilot's that lived that era and had their pensions disappear into corporate bonus's and payouts are now being called greedy for flying to 65 by a some junior pilots who have been furloughed the majority of the past decade and would just like to be employed."

"...don't forget that all the pilot's that lived that era and had their pensions disappear into corporate bonus's and payouts are now being called greedy for flying to 65 by a some junior pilots who likewise have no pension and whose drastically reduced career earnings potential results in a insufficient DC retirement."

"...don't forget that all the pilot's that lived in an era with pay and benefits beyond the imagination of today's generation of pilots and had their pensions disappear into corporate bonus's and payouts are now being called greedy for flying to 65 by a some junior pilots who want to upgrade NOW before this rapidly deteriorating profession gets even worse."

 

[Taco Rocket]

So easy for today’s pilots to forget history – thanks Skipper!

In a cyclical, mature industry it would seem logical that the two airlines near the bottom today – arguably AA and US – would have the most to gain and the most to offer a pilot starting today.

Gentlemen, what goes up must come down.

 

[slaquer5]

So easy for today’s pilots to forget history – thanks Skipper!

In a cyclical, mature industry it would seem logical that the two airlines near the bottom today – arguably AA and US – would have the most to gain and the most to offer a pilot starting today.

Gentlemen, what goes up must come down.

That is why I keep putting more money in to short goggle and apple.

 

[BrickTop]

We don't need an upgrade. We NEED a ####ing paycheck, Half the Current pilots in this industry will NEVER NEVER see an upgrade.

 

[Dan Roman]

All the pilots that lived that era??!! All of them Dan? As I've pointed out to you many times, my father lost a pension in that era you describe and they didn't raise the age for him. Matter of fact, guys like you who were junior back then made certain they didn't even get jobs.

65 is done. We're only 12 months from retirements starting again. Has it been enough? Old guys ought to be counting this down with the entire group. Instead old guys like you continue to gripe and complain like you are still waiting for some relief. What else does the world owe your generation?

I'm curious, how did "guys like me" prevent your Dad from getting a job? Also, are you saying that if your Dad could have recouped some of what was stolen from him by flying to 65 you think he would be wrong to do it?

Seems to me this career got seriously altered for everyone, it's always had guys who got screwed and others who scored. PanAm had guys hired who upgraded quick and other guys who were hired a year later that never did upgrade and other guys hired just a year later that got furloughed and never recalled. At least now everyone has the chance to go to 65 if they are so inclined.

 

[Mamma]

Have the chance to go to 65? How about forced.