2 CFI Questions

[your_dreamguy]

I need clarification on these questions.

1A. When is a recreational pilot required to carry a logbook with the required endorsements?

I didn't think recreational pilots were required to carry their logbooks as any other pilot such as private, Commercial, etc. would be required to carry theirs?

1B. Is a recreational pilot required to carry their logbook if acting as PIC?

2. May repeated solo cross-country flights over the same route be made by a student without receiving an endorsement from a flight instructor for each flight?

I thought an endorsement is required for each solo cross-country flight but I think I'm wrong. If you're student is flying a solo cross-country between the same points previously flown (and endorsed for), you wouldn't need to re-endorse them for another solo cross-country between those 2 points, would you?

 

[avbug]

14 CFR 61.51(I)(2) provides the requirement for student pilots to carry their logbook, and specifically points to the logbook as a required item:

(2) A student pilot must carry the following items in the aircraft on all solo cross-country flights as evidence of the required authorized instructor clearances and endorsements—
(i) Pilot logbook;
(ii) Student pilot certificate; and
(iii) Any other record required by this section.

The requirement for a sport pilot however, found in 61.51(I)(3) states that the sport pilot must carry the logbook or other evidence of instructor endorsements on all flights.

(3) A sport pilot must carry his or her logbook or other evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on all flights.

The next related requirement is found in 61.51(I)(4), which does require carriage of the logbook specifically, on all solo cross country flights, night flights, or flights involving commo with ATC...or where the pilot doesn't hold a category and class rating:

(4) A recreational pilot must carry his or her logbook with the required authorized instructor endorsements on all solo flights—
(i) That exceed 50 nautical miles from the airport at which training was received;
(ii) Within airspace that requires communication with air traffic control;
(iii) Conducted between sunset and sunrise; or
(iv) In an aircraft for which the pilot does not hold an appropriate category or class rating.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Avbug answered your recreational pilot question with the reference to 61.51(i)(4) (note that they are privileges that do not automatically come with a rec certifciate)

2. May repeated solo cross-country flights over the same route be made by a student without receiving an endorsement from a flight instructor for each flight?

I thought an endorsement is required for each solo cross-country flight but I think I'm wrong. If you're student is flying a solo cross-country between the same points previously flown (and endorsed for), you wouldn't need to re-endorse them for another solo cross-country between those 2 points, would you?

Your answer is in 61.93, but the short answer (you'll have to read it for the long answer) is that depends on the type of cross country flight. If it's student solo cross countries to meet the requirements for the private, having been on the route before makes no difference - the endorsement is that the CFI has, among other things, reviewed the planning for that flight and has reviewed the current weather conditions.

There are, however, a group of specialized cross countries that are discussed in 61.93(b). Those include cross country flights to an airport within 25 NM to practice takeoffs and landings. Another is repeated cross country flights to an airport less that 50 NM away. But neither of those count toward certificate or rating requirements.

 

[your_dreamguy]

Mark,

Thanks for your reply. However, there is where some confusion lies. The flight to airports with 25 NM and the other example you gave where the flight is less than 50 NM do not meet the cross-country definition, correct?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Mark,

Thanks for your reply. However, there is where some confusion lies. The flight to airports with 25 NM and the other example you gave where the flight is less than 50 NM do not meet the cross-country definition, correct?

Ah I understand the confusion. If you look at 61.1(b)(3), you'll see that there are multiple definitions of "cross country" that depend on what what you want to =count= the flight for. If the way the FAR lays it out is too cumbersome to get through, I explain it in the FAQ section of my web site, http://www.midlifeflight.com/faq/faq.php?s=1#7

If you look at the definitions, you'll see that those shorter cross countries =do= meet the definition - just not the one that lets you count it toward the requirements for the private certifciate.

Those shorter cross country endorsement are there for practical/safety reasons. The 25 NM one for takeoffs and landings, is, for one example, to allow a student training at a no-towered airport to practice at a towered one (or vice versa)

Does that help?