2-9-10 7pm: UPDATE: Delta, US Airways May Drop Planned Landing Slot Swap

[ACL65PILOT]

Nu;
Another great analogy.

 

[Captzaahlie]

thump...

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Heyas,

As an example of how absurd this is:

ACL and I own some 1 bedroom units in a condo building on the 3rd and 5th floors. The market is much better for 2br units, so ACL and I decide we're going to swap units so that each one of our units are next to each other, and we can knock some walls down to make a bigger unit. The condo board is fine with all this.

Then the city housing authority, which really has no business in this, comes in and says: "no, no, for us to approve this, you each need to give up a unit so we can build a halfway house in units you gave up".

If I were LCC and DAL, I'd go tell them to piss up a rope also.

Nu

BS.

Both these airports are owned by the local governments for the benefit of the actual citizens. Both airports are full. This is a collusion between two competitors to divide and control two important markets that have no physical room for additional competition. As a citizen I should be concerned that this deal decreases competition and will result in higher ticket prices. The DOJ should act to address this concern.

Do you guys that worship the "free market" think we should remove stop signs as an additional impediment to the market?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That is asinine. Stop Signs are for safety. What they are doing is telling a property owner to see his property. Those slots were bid for, bout and paid for by the airlines. No one owns NYC and no one will after this.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

All this crap started when the Govt "deregulated" the airline industry. The problem was, they did not deregulate it at all.

If they actually would have, things would be sorted by now. TO do it, they could have set a starting date for deregulation, and on that date, there would be no route authority, no ownership of gates, slots, or anything of that nature by the airlines.

All the gates and slots in existence at that time would have been auctioned to the highest bidder, and the gov't would allow any airline to fly anywhere...no one would "possess" a route.

BUT, the govt didn't do it, so the actuall "deregulation" of the airline industry continues piecemeal to this day.

cliff
NBO

 

[johnsonrod]

This is a very simple issue. Anyone who voted for Obama must accept that we are becoming a SOCIALIST country where nobody can win anything. It's true. Barry Obama is trying to extend the middle at the expense of the "winners" who have worked hard for their gains. Chuckie "plugs" Schumer is one of Barry's cronies.

Thanks to all of the socialists on this board who have contributed to our current mess. Perhaps you should think differently in the coming elections (especially 2012). And no, I hate Palin too.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Heyas,

As an example of how absurd this is:

ACL and I own some 1 bedroom units in a condo building on the 3rd and 5th floors. The market is much better for 2br units, so ACL and I decide we're going to swap units so that each one of our units are next to each other, and we can knock some walls down to make a bigger unit. The condo board is fine with all this.

Then the city housing authority, which really has no business in this, comes in and says: "no, no, for us to approve this, you each need to give up a unit so we can build a halfway house in units you gave up".

If I were LCC and DAL, I'd go tell them to piss up a rope also.

Nu

OK, so then what stops any two airlines from swapping slots in major cities, in effect causing a monopoly in those cities. What if UAL swapped their gates in LAX with AA for the gates in ORD. People in ORD and LAX would experience super high non-competitive fares. Someone has to look out for the consumer or do we just go back to regulation???

Yogi

 

[dragon]

Sorry,

The consumer is already paying less for seats in today's $$ than 10 years ago. There is no brand loyalty they just want to fly cheaply. Sell the slots/gates to the highest bidder and we'll see what the market will bear.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

BS.

Both these airports are owned by the local governments for the benefit of the actual citizens. Both airports are full. This is a collusion between two competitors to divide and control two important markets that have no physical room for additional competition. As a citizen I should be concerned that this deal decreases competition and will result in higher ticket prices. The DOJ should act to address this concern.

Do you guys that worship the "free market" think we should remove stop signs as an additional impediment to the market?

Wow, are you actually this stupid, or did you have to work at it?
You reek of a Jet Blew pilot!

 

[flyin4jsus]

From what I understand UsAirways use to fly to alot of Florida cities out of LGA. Why can't they pull out of the smaller cities and fly some of those routes again?

 

[EMBpilot]

This is freaking rediculous. Someone wants jetblue in DCA.

Senator Shummer.
Politicians like to take substandard employers under the wings to say that they are pro competition.

It is easer to create cheap jobs and unemployment goes down.

 

[inflightboi175]

doesn't republic own some slots in dca or lga?

 

[SpauldingSmails]

doesn't republic own some slots in dca or lga?

Probably gained through the former MidEx.

 

[DrewBlows]

OK, so then what stops any two airlines from swapping slots in major cities, in effect causing a monopoly in those cities. What if UAL swapped their gates in LAX with AA for the gates in ORD. People in ORD and LAX would experience super high non-competitive fares. Someone has to look out for the consumer or do we just go back to regulation???

Yogi

ORD and JFK are the only other airports in this country that have landing slots. The situation that you propose is not possible.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

ORD and JFK are the only other airports in this country that have landing slots. The situation that you propose is not possible.

Are you sure about that??? What about EWR? I'm sure there are others...

 

[Tweaker]

This is a very simple issue. Anyone who voted for Obama must accept that we are becoming a SOCIALIST country where nobody can win anything. It's true. Barry Obama is trying to extend the middle at the expense of the "winners" who have worked hard for their gains. Chuckie "plugs" Schumer is one of Barry's cronies.

Thanks to all of the socialists on this board who have contributed to our current mess. Perhaps you should think differently in the coming elections (especially 2012). And no, I hate Palin too.

The nickname "plugs" has already been registered by teh Vice President. So sorry.

Also, I want to have Sarah Palin's lovechild. Carry on.

 

[guntrain11]

BS.

Both these airports are owned by the local governments for the benefit of the actual citizens. Both airports are full. This is a collusion between two competitors to divide and control two important markets that have no physical room for additional competition. As a citizen I should be concerned that this deal decreases competition and will result in higher ticket prices. The DOJ should act to address this concern.

First post here, so please be gentle.:uzi:

I disagree with your premise. While LGA and DCA are slot controlled, they aren't the only airports in their respective markets.

Continental currently has a greater concentration of flights at EWR than DAL would have post slot swap at LGA. LCC isn't reducing any mainline LGA flights, just commuter flying. JBLU has a greater presence at JFK than DAL has. Add JFK, LGA and ERW together post slot swap (3 major NYC airports) and DAL still wouldn't have market dominance. It would be a much more even competition considering CAL can do both domestic and international out of EWR. DAL would have two different types of operations, one domestic (LGA) and one international (JFK), with the attendant inefficiency. I'm not even including the flying done out of Islip, White Plains, or Stewart/Newburg for the NYC market, which would further diminish the competitive "threat" you're worried about. Also, if the airport is "at capacity", moving the slots to Delta will increase daily available seats by 13% without any increase in operations at the airport. More competition.

If the DOT was so worried about competition, why did it allow AirTran and CAL to swap EWR and LGA/DCA slots last year? AirTran left the EWR market completely, and CAL increased their airport dominance.

Same is true in DC. IAD to the west is completely dominated by UAL. LUV dominates BWI. Both have higher percentages of traffic than a post slot swap LCC would have at DCA. Delta isn't reducing any mainline flying out of DCA. LCC will increase mainline flying. Where's the threat?

This IS a case of government (by its own admission) picking corporate winners and losers. I thought we were a deregulated industry!:crying:

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I would check and see who has the most slots on a given day. From how I understand it DAL would be out in front of CAL when this is over. (either way)

 

[guntrain11]

I would check and see who has the most slots on a given day. From how I understand it DAL would be out in front of CAL when this is over. (either way)

In the overall NYC market that's correct, just as CAL is out in front of DAL now. If the slot swap was to go through without divestiture, then DAL still would not have a market dominate position. They'd be number one, but less than 50% of the total.

 

[Smarta$$]

This is a very simple issue. Anyone who voted for Obama must accept that we are becoming a SOCIALIST country where nobody can win anything. It's true. Barry Obama is trying to extend the middle at the expense of the "winners" who have worked hard for their gains. Chuckie "plugs" Schumer is one of Barry's cronies.

Thanks to all of the socialists on this board who have contributed to our current mess. Perhaps you should think differently in the coming elections (especially 2012). And no, I hate Palin too.

Are you wearing your tinfoil hat? Go back to your Armageddon bunker.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

In the overall NYC market that's correct, just as CAL is out in front of DAL now. If the slot swap was to go through without divestiture, then DAL still would not have a market dominate position. They'd be number one, but less than 50% of the total.

Agreed. No one will every "own" NYC, and for that reason, this DOT decision is flawed.

 

[DrewBlows]

Are you sure about that??? What about EWR? I'm sure there are others...

My mistake. EWR is slot controlled. Can't find any more that are though.

 

[inflightboi175]

Probably gained through the former MidEx.

No I remember hearing that a handful
of the gates/slots that us airways flys out of republic owns them

 

[clippyrip]

This is a very simple issue. Anyone who voted for Obama must accept that we are becoming a SOCIALIST country where nobody can win anything. It's true. Barry Obama is trying to extend the middle at the expense of the "winners" who have worked hard for their gains. Chuckie "plugs" Schumer is one of Barry's cronies.

Thanks to all of the socialists on this board who have contributed to our current mess. Perhaps you should think differently in the coming elections (especially 2012). And no, I hate Palin too.

Ahhh finally, a right wing pilot. There are so few these days. It's nice to get your fresh perspective. Please explain to us how everything that Obama inherited is his fault. It should be enlightening.