1984 or 2004? Where are we headed?

[ifly4food]

It's very scary how we inch closer every day to the Orwellian prophecy:

1. "TIPPS" program. (Congress just dealt it a setback yesterday, but the NSA still is going forward with it).
Make a centralized database of information gleaned from surveliance videos (ATMs, traffic cams, security cams) and link it with electronic commerce like internet sales and credit card transactions. Merge this with monitoring of the Internet. This will make up a massive monitoring program, run by the government, to monitor Americans for "terrorist activity". This is in the name of national security, of course.
Big Brother is watching.

2. The TSA.
This is the first time in American history that we have had a police force operated by the Federal government who has the authority to oversee every aspect of our daily lives and can act with unchecked power as they report to no one. Merely being suspicious of something constitutes a crime.
Think it's just security checkpoints? Think again. The TSA now reviews flight plans, monitors highway and rail travel, checks airline databases, and apparently has the power to prosecute without a trial. All this for national security.
The Thought Police are coming.

3. War.
Our esteemed president has decided that we need a war and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. This is purely to sustain his own ego. If this continues and we attack Iraq or N. Korea without provocation or cooperation we are headed to World War III.
It's no secret that our economy is suffering. A war is the best way to rally a nation's people to work harder. It also takes people's attention away from WHY an economy is suffering and gives the nation a tool to use against anyone who dissents (you're unpatriotic you must be a terrorist. See #2).
A war that never ends used to force the people into productivity.

Perhaps Orwell should have named his book 2004. He was only off by 20 years.

 

[chawbein]

I was with you until #3. That's pretty silly.

Otherwise, get out your Victory Gin and Victory Smokes.

 

[FL000]

Our esteemed president has decided that we need a war and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. This is purely to sustain his own ego.

And I thought "no blood for oil" was a silly rebuttal to the current war drums. Care to substantiate that statement (the second part)?

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Big Brother SSN

Unfortunately, we are here as far as the Orwellian society is concerned. I use the SSN as a prime example. It is requested for all kinds of things. College ID, car insurance, cable TV services, etc. In Florida, they won't sell car insurance unless you provide.
Another example, the college I graduated from still sends me literature to my correct address although I have moved several times and never have given them a dime or any address updates. My SSN was my college ID number. Speculate that's how they're able to track me.

The weird one is how the airlines can follow me regarding frequent flyer literature. I never sent NWA, UAL, USA, DAL, etc. any address updates yet I get all this stuff with my new/correct address.

Your debit and/or credit card is basically your disguised SSN - plus it leaves a great trail of your purchases. If you used your SSN to get cell phone services that leaves a great trail as well.
The SSN is a great way for commerce and government to track you. Question is why? They want to track you but all their tracking is done in stealth. I use cash as much as I can. Speculate cash will be outlawed some day all in the name of peace, safety, and security.

 

[flywithastick]

3. War.
Our esteemed president has decided that we need a war and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. This is purely to sustain his own ego.

Do you really believe this?! You're seriously loosing credibility with statements like this one.

But I do agree that Orwell's predictions are already here and growing in magnitude. With the "New World Order" efforts of the Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergs, United Nations, etc., our national soverignty and personal liberty are being chipped away at an alarming rate.

Regarding the use of cash, I agree with the comments above. The first step in tracking cash usage has already come and gone. Why do you think the bills have been changed over the last decade or so? To prevent counterfeiting?! Yea, right! To facilitate tracking cash usage - either for commercial or federal purposes. Another "excuse" we'll hear about the cash tracking or elimination efforts will be to "stop drug trafficking".

Future - Once they get us all on credit, debit or other electronic systems, then they'll have us by the nuts. Buy or say anything non-PC, and you may well get retroactive punnishment in the future. Presently - PC has already stretched into jail time for public speaking - it'll be to the Internet soon. Retroactive punnishment occurs today to corporations and persons who disposed of wastes legally in decades past, but in many cases are declared Superfund sites today.

Future - Buy something that is deemed unhealthy (candy bar, beer, cigarettes), you'll be kicked into a higher tax bracket due to your burden on the federal health care system. Present - Legislators are currently pushing for federal laws to limit portion size and to tax "unhealthy" food.

Future - go to a doctor outside the new federal heath system, and you'll get a $10,000 fine assessed immediately to your federally controlled savings acct. Present - The supreme b!tch, Hilary Clinton, pushed hard for a federal takeover of the health care system about 10 years ago. They don't quit... they just go after their goals from another angle and will be back. The feds already monitor transactions over $10,000 in the name of catching "drug kingpins". BTW, have the feds executed any "drug kingpins" with that new law they enacted about 10 -15 yrs ago?! Didn't think so...

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's happening and no one seems to give a d@mn.

 

[mar]

Bush's ego

Ifly4food could've chosen a better word, I agree.

But I also agree that Bush is motivated by, partly, selfish reasons:

Facts:

--Hussein tried to have Bush Sr. killed.

--Bush Jr has said about Hussein, "He tried to kill my dad."

--The Bush camp is eager (like children on Christmas Eve) to repeat Persian Gulf I.

Opinion:

--Hussein is a dead man no matter the collateral damage.

 

[flywithastick]

Re: Bush's ego

--Bush Jr has said about Hussein, "He tried to kill my dad."

I saw him make that comment. It suprised me. would be awfully small of "W" to want to go to war for that reason alone, given that his dad is still alive. Possible, but not what I'd expect for what appears to be a guy with a fair amount of character.

Besides, if it were me and I wanted to get revenge - I'd use assasins or precision cruise missle/bomb hit... Reagan seemed to have received Ghadaffi's attention with a precision "personal" hit.

--The Bush camp is eager (like children on Christmas Eve) to repeat Persian Gulf I.

Possibly - but I just don't see it like they're blood thirsty. There have to be lots of other things people in power can do to "get off". Like BJs in the oval office, embezzling money, taking bribes, pushing special interest legislation to set yourself up as a lobbyist or other big $$ player in a few years. just my opinion.

--Hussein is a dead man no matter the collateral damage.

Agreed. Whatever the reasons, it appears there's plenty of resolve to carry this through.

 

[TXCAP4228]

You're a pretty smart guy and I enjoy your posts. I just couldn't let this one go.

It's very scary how we inch closer every day to the Orwellian prophecy:

1. "TIPPS" program. (Congress just dealt it a setback yesterday, but the NSA still is going forward with it).
Make a centralized database of information gleaned from surveliance videos (ATMs, traffic cams, security cams) and link it with electronic commerce like internet sales and credit card transactions. Merge this with monitoring of the Internet. This will make up a massive monitoring program, run by the government, to monitor Americans for "terrorist activity". This is in the name of national security, of course.
Big Brother is watching.

I think you're being a little mellodramatic.

Originally posted by ifly4food
2. The TSA.
This is the first time in American history that we have had a police force operated by the Federal government who has the authority to oversee every aspect of our daily lives and can act with unchecked power as they report to no one. Merely being suspicious of something constitutes a crime.
Think it's just security checkpoints? Think again. The TSA now reviews flight plans, monitors highway and rail travel, checks airline databases, and apparently has the power to prosecute without a trial. All this for national security.
The Thought Police are coming.

1) The TSA is not unchecked. The department of homeland security is a Cabinet level position and has congressional oversight. What you said is demonstrably wrong.
2) This is not the first "national" police force. People said the same thing about the FBI and lo and behold we're not having our rights violated left and right by them.
3) The TSA is an mnore efficient gathering of people who have been serving and protecting America foir a long time now. Someone finally had the bright idea of bringing it all under one roof - most call it a more efficient use of taxpayer dollars.
4) Are you suggesting that no one should monitor highway and rail travel? Are you suggesting that no one reviews flight plans now? Whatever. Of course they should and of course they do.
5) Finally you say that they will have the authority to prosecute without trial. You will have to provide some substantiation of this claim - I have never seen this anywhere. The Constitution protects us from this.

Originally posted by ifly4food
3. War.
Our esteemed president has decided that we need a war and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. This is purely to sustain his own ego. If this continues and we attack Iraq or N. Korea without provocation or cooperation we are headed to World War III.
It's no secret that our economy is suffering. A war is the best way to rally a nation's people to work harder. It also takes people's attention away from WHY an economy is suffering and gives the nation a tool to use against anyone who dissents (you're unpatriotic you must be a terrorist. See #2).
A war that never ends used to force the people into productivity.
Perhaps Orwell should have named his book 2004. He was only off by 20 years.

Now you're going off the deep end.
1) If it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks then why did we go to the UN? You're premise is shown to be wrong from this alone.
2) We have a number of allies that side with us.
3) Do you agree that Sadaam has not lived up to his obligations? We had the moral and legal authority to act decisively when Sadaam kicked out the inspectors in 98. We have every bit as much room now.
4) The economy continues to suffer largely because of doubt about the war. Here again one of your basic premises is shows to be demonstrably false.
5) You think that the purpose of this war is to distract from the economy? What makes you say that?
6) No one calls a dissenter a terrorist or unpatriotic. No one on this board has, no one in the media has, President Bush certainly has not. You are over reaching yet again. Don't get so tied up in your anti war rhetoric that you will accuse your oposition of squelching dissent. For crying out loud, look at all the dissent going on!


You have no credibility on this subject.

 

[saabtrash]

No it's not 1984 or 2004, it's 2003. You sound like a liberal immigrant with a green card.

 

[navigator72]

The real terrorist

Who is the real terrorist?
Bush or Hussein?
The world sucks!