141 question

[s0ldier93]

Hello all-

My favorite Flight School just went 141 and working on their VA approval. I have my PPL and plan on returning there soon for IFR and CPL.

My question is this: Having only 100 hours total, can they waive the 50 hour requirement for IFR and 250 requirement for CPL??

 

[labbats]

Yes. If you go with the more structured 141 syllabus, then commercial only takes 190 hours total time, if you achieve all of the required lessons.

 

[s0ldier93]

So, looking at my current 100 hours, and guessing about 30 for IFR and 20 for CPL, I'd still need about 40 hours to get to where I need to be. *sigh* time to start renting again.

 

[labbats]

You need 35 hours of simulated or actual instrument. I don't log my student's runups, so you lose about 0.1-0.2 hours on the hobbs per flight. Plan on instrument taking 40-45 hours. The 141 commercial syllabus must be followed to get the 190 hours waiver, and that takes a lot of flying in any brand of syllabus. What I mean by that is to simply say that if a commercial 141 program is in place, they have to follow certain lessons in order, and complete them. So our syllabus requires about 10 hours of dual, followed by tons of solo XC, followed by some dual manuevers, followed by solo manuevers, and finally switching into a complex airplane. It's about 120 hours in the course, and that must be completed to get your checkride. So 120 hours, plus your current 100 would put you at 220. But that's still a bargain over paying for another 30 hours to complete the 250 hour part 61 minimum time.

There's no real shortcuts, but 141 is the cheapest way to go about it if you are going straight through.

 

[s0ldier93]

I see. the program I'm targeting is 141 and accelerrated (fly, study, fly study, sleep study, fly. . . . ). Being that way, do you still think it will take 40-45 hours?

Also, are you saying some of the simulator time will be logged as flight time? (they have an "approved" simulator)

I'm missing "120 hours" part. Is that a IFR+CPL coarse total?

 

[philo beddoe]

FAA 141 course minimums:


private - 35 hrs

instrument - 35 hours

Sim may be used for 40-50% of the course time, depending on type of sim.

Commercial - 120 hours.

Therefore, if you do not have your instrument,

Your current time 100
Instrument rating 35
Commercial 120
. _____

Total 255

There are variations that may make the above not applicable for you, so research carefully.

 

[s0ldier93]

So, like it or not i will have to do about a good number of flying (renting) on my own. Or are you saying that commercial training will take 120 hours of flight? That seems like allot of training.

 

[philo beddoe]

One way to take advantage of VA benefits:

Enroll in a 141 school.

Complete the lessons until you meet pt 61 mins.

Drop out of 141.

Take checkride.

It's totally legal, too.


No law says you must complete the 141 course before the checkride.

 

[s0ldier93]

Interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind.

 

[huncowboy]

hold on a second IMO

s0ldier93,



IMO I would not blow my money on renting just yet (unless you want to do that anyways for fun and have the resources).



It always depends on the individual but instrument and commercial is not that easy. No one knows how many hours you will need, so I would rather wait until the last moment and rent the airplane ONLY if I need to. Also once you already know how to do the commercial maneuvers, it will make much more sense to practice them when you rent. Therefore I would say, finish the instrument, start doing your commercial, and when you get close to the ride start practicing the commercial maneuvers IF you need to. If you feel confident about them than go and rent the minimum you will need and fly some instrument weather that will not kill you. Also when you get close to the commercial ride you will know exactly how many hours you will need so you won’t spend the precious $$ on something that you don’t need.



Believe me, nothing suck more than running out of money because you blew it on something that turned out not being a priority, then sitting on you’re a$$ losing precious months until you come up with the dough again. Just my 0.02.

 

[s0ldier93]

huncowboy-

Thank you. I'll take it into consideration. I think my original goal of doing the 10 day IFR PROGRAM back to back with the 4 day CPL program may have been a little ambitious.

 

[nosehair]

VA Benefits

Philo beddo, your suggestion to enroll in a 141 program to get VA benefits, then drop out when 61 requirements are met is bad advice. It is illegal.
Enrolling in a course, and then dropping out for any number of valid unforeseen events is one thing, but intentionally defrauding the government by enrolling in a course that you don't intend to finish is illegal. And it is bad business for flight schools. Don't even go there.
Besides, flight time accrued before beginning a course can have some credit. A Chief can credit up to 25% of the course time with part 61 time. Meaning, the time you get after your private can be credited. If he got his private in 50 hours and flew 50 more hours, then some of that time can be credited intothe commercial program, reducing the amount of time he has to buy. The 120 hours is actually 55 dual and 65 solo, so 25% of those number = 13.75 dual and 16.25 solo. The actual amount given credit depends on how much of the flying can be credited towards completion of required lessons, and a proficiency check by the Chief.
That is the right way to go about this, not "cheatin' on the feds", get outta here!