135 Schedule

[weeks]

Currently working for a very busy 135/91 op. Company is working towards scheduled days off. 10 pilots with 5 airplanes (all the same). Any ideas/experiences with schedules for this kind of operation. I'm looking for constructive ideas. Thanks.

 

[TigerDriver]

I'm at a 135 charter operation. We have a 2 week on/1 week off schedule with 8 hard days off a month.

 

[MNR]

Its going to be hard to get any time off unless you convince them to get more pilots. With 2.0 pilots per plane you can't even cover training and vacation. The operation TigerDriver is refering to (if I am guessing correctly) has 3 pilots per plane plus an additional 10ish pilots to cover sick time/vacation etc. for 12? aircraft.

 

[Lostdog65]

Must be nice...I'm on call 24/7...what's a day off?? I seem to recall what one of those was...let's see...oh yeah...NO ONE CALLS YOU!!

There...I feel better. What was the question? Oh yeah...a schedule.

While 5/2 is perfect with Sat/Sun off...7/7 is not bad. 6/1 is killer. Don't do it! 12/2 works only for a few months...then you get all screwed up because you have one reallllly loooonnnng Wed. and only one real Friday. 10 pilots and 5 planes you should be able to get a 5/2 with rotating weekends off. My personal preference was a Sun/Mon off...(or Fri/Sat off) got one weekend day off and one weekday off.

I hope that helps...sorry for the sarcasm...a bit punchy this morning...flying freight (again) as fill-in for the last three days...body can't take it much anymore.

Eric

 

[kingairyahoo]

ive had a few different schedules with the various companies i have worked for...

• 24/7 on call
• week on-week off
• 2 weeks on-1 week off
• 5 on 2 off followed by 5 on then 3 off
• 7 on 2 off followed by 8 on then 3 off

...needless to say the week on-week off was my favorite, albeit the most short lived :bawling:

 

[G100driver]

Must be nice...I'm on call 24/7...what's a day off?? I seem to recall what one of those was...let's see...oh yeah...NO ONE CALLS YOU!!

There...I feel better. What was the question?

I admit, I used to have a schedule like that ... my question is these days how is that legal. I mean do you ever come into work to do Jepps, purchase stocks, ect? You are not at rest. You must be on duty, right?

Do you ever go out and have a beer. If you cannot do it at noon then you must be on duty, right? If you cannot have a beer in the evening then you must have been at rest ealier, right? I remember always being ready well and rested when I was called at 3AM to do a charter .... yea right. Either you plan for a 3AM call or you feel like $hit and your passengers are paying the price.

How many more Ebersol crashes is it going to take before we as a profession are playing a game that ALWAYS ends up in someone getting killed at some point in the future. The recent 135 crashes all seem to have the same pattern over and over.

Good luck to all in this mess. We do need a professional standards board to answer to. Until then it is just this continued loosy goosy BS that make 80% of unscheduled 135 look like a bunch of hacks.

 

[HMR]

Excellent post, G100.

 

[Lostdog65]

I second that G100....I am NEVER off duty unless I just finished a 14...then at 10 hours, I'm expected to be available again. I've sat in the office for 8 straight, updating Jepps, writing training manuals, then go home only to get a phone call at 10p to go bail out Horizon cause they are stuck again in ACV. Or, "Can you do a RNO pickup at 0600??"
"NO...how about 0730?"

I've taken to drinking beer again! If I really want to screw with them I'll pop one about 8 or 9p...that really hoses the night for duty! Half the time I don't even finish it!

Anyways...a hard schedule is what I would like...I don't care if it is on-demand charter, air ambulance or freight...I just want to be OFF when I'm OFF. Is that too much to ask???

Eric

 

[402CAPT]

Oh yeah Lost I know what you are talking about. Wait I am the guy that gets the call 10 mins before, then calls you. Oh yeah I also can't remember what it is to have a day off. Dealing with cry baby pilots all week then all weekend when I need somebody to cover a run, because everybody is flying including the D.O. Today is Easter and guess what I will be on the phone trying to schedule pilots for the week and answering calls a 2 a.m. for charters. Ah that feels better a load of my chest!!!

 

[Lostdog65]

There's always the beer option 402Capt!! LOL! I know...your phone rings, then my phone rings, then we both go to RNO at 0600 for a pickup!

Sucks being the boss...been there, done that...I feel your pain...now go have a beer on me and I'll see ya in the office on Mon!

Eric

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I admit, I used to have a schedule like that ... my question is these days how is that legal. I mean do you ever come into work to do Jepps, purchase stocks, ect? You are not at rest. You must be on duty, right?

Do you ever go out and have a beer. If you cannot do it at noon then you must be on duty, right? If you cannot have a beer in the evening then you must have been at rest ealier, right? I remember always being ready well and rested when I was called at 3AM to do a charter .... yea right. Either you plan for a 3AM call or you feel like $hit and your passengers are paying the price.

How many more Ebersol crashes is it going to take before we as a profession are playing a game that ALWAYS ends up in someone getting killed at some point in the future. The recent 135 crashes all seem to have the same pattern over and over.

Good luck to all in this mess. We do need a professional standards board to answer to. Until then it is just this continued loosy goosy BS that make 80% of unscheduled 135 look like a bunch of hacks.

good post G100!

Many of us have been there...its ugly, and sometimes flat out dangerous (looking back on it)

However, I dont think it will ever change, the 135 world if simply too full of scumbag shoestring operators and cheap owners willing to sacrifce their own safety to save a few bucks - and also, admittingly, full of pilots willing to work like this to get some experience to move on.

It makes about as much sense as the stupidity MDs go through as residents pulling 72 hr shifts and seeing patients and being responsible for lives on the spot.....rediculous.

but hey, at least they have big paychecks soon after thats over...we get...ummm....nevermind.

 

[402CAPT]

Hey Lost Shinner Bach on me.

 

[HMR]

0600 pickups in RNO?! You guys are giving me flashbacks. I don't think I ever got called to go to RNO at a "normal" hour. What's the deal with that place?

Lostdog- I used to work for a lowball charter outfit with a 24/7, 45-minute call out, no scheduled days off EVER "policy". I feel your pain. The worst was that period around 10pm on days you hadn't been called (yet). I never knew whether to go to bed and try to sleep before the inevitable 3am call or just tough it out and stay awake.

When I started flying PT91 with no pager or "on call" requirement; it took me a good 2-3months to be able to sleep normally. I'd hear a noise in the middle of the night and immediately start reaching for my pager on the nightstand. Of course, there was no pager anymore as I had soaked it in battery acid, crushed it under a locomotive wheel and thrown what was left in an iron smelter.

 

[Lostdog65]

HMR said:

I'd hear a noise in the middle of the night and immediately start reaching for my pager on the nightstand.

Funny you should say that...I inadvertantly left my pager on and at home while I was flying freight...it went off at 3 am...wife finally figured out how to shut it off but inadvertantly set the alarm for 6 am...how appropriate!

Where can I sign up for RCPA???

Eric

 

[Publishers]

So much depends on what kind of flying you are doing. In 135, hard days off in smaller companies are very difficult. On the other hand, with jet equipment, there are hard days down for maintenance that are somewhat known in advance. In our charter, we do not have that many instant trips so if your not scheduled for tomorrow at 5pm, it is likely you will not fly the next day. Likewise, most weekend flying is well known out a ways. While not hard days off, you still can have a pretty good situation/.

 

[Lostdog65]

Ok Pub...where you working, what are you flying, what are your min's/pay and are you hiring???

Eric

 

[volunteer]

I am currently working for a charter with a 20/10 sched. The 10 days are consecutive and the eight in the middle of the 10 are hard days off. So, we get a vacation every month. We fly on average 13-15 of the 20 days on. If something pops on the eight hard days off, then we have the OPTION to fly it if they need us and we get bonus $$$ to do it. If we turn it down, they have no issues getting a contract for the trip. We also had the option for a 14/7 schedule, but we wanted to leave it like it is. 20 days on is a long tour, but I really like being able to plan on having a 10-day monthly vacation. I think the mentality of management is key. Ours is great.

 

[Lostdog65]

Volunteer...same question I posted for Publisher!

Eric