135 hell

[ditchpilot]

Looking for some insight from some 135 jet charter opperators.
I am a 91 driver who has a bud flying for a 135 jet charter company from mid-west running charters down to Mexico out of the U.S gulf coast which regularly exceeds the duty time by 4 and 5 hrs.

Here is the issue crew has complained to the CP and DO with no help other then a old letter stating in their op specs that they can exceed the duty time limites due to unforeseen delays.

He called the owner to inform him that he was shutting down a flight (due to fatigue)with 1 deadhead leg remaining after 16 hrs on duty for the 3rd day in a row. The owner informed him that he was never to tell him what to do with his company and that there is no fatigue issues with this schedule.

Is this SOP for charter opps.? I flew 135 in the oilfield back in the 90's and we were serious about not exceeding the 14hr day rule. Now as CP for a 91 flight dept. we may have a long day once in a while but we normaly get a day room or have a long wait where we can snooz at the FBO.

 

[goodgig]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=102326

 

[avbug]

Your friend needs to get out. While I don't normally advocate taking an employer to task with the FAA, I would do it myself if I were in his position.

His big problem is that if he's giving in to this pressure regularly, he's the one who will be prosecuted, first and foremost.

He needs a different job. NOW.

As for duty time...rest time is prescribed. Not duty, in his case.

 

[TimsKeeper]

unforseen

It's not unforseen if it's happening all the time.

 

[joelo88]

avbug has a good point. he's the one who can get into trouble.

i believe the wording of the duty time regs is something to the effect of...

"no person may be assigned and no person may ACCEPT... blah blah blah"

it's the last part that's gonna get him.

in reality the only thing he can do is prepare his resume and tell these guys to pack sand when he finds a new job. i know it's tough.

if this is the attitude at the place he works, i wouldn't even tell anyone i was leaving. i would just stop showing up. f'em

 

[pilotyip]

USA Jet

Looking for some insight from some 135 jet charter opperators.
I am a 91 driver who has a bud flying for a 135 jet charter company from mid-west running charters down to Mexico out of the U.S gulf coast which regularly exceeds the duty time by 4 and 5 hrs.

Here is the issue crew has complained to the CP and DO with no help other then a old letter stating in their op specs that they can exceed the duty time limites due to unforeseen delays.

He called the owner to inform him that he was shutting down a flight (due to fatigue)with 1 deadhead leg remaining after 16 hrs on duty for the 3rd day in a row. The owner informed him that he was never to tell him what to do with his company and that there is no fatigue issues with this schedule.

Is this SOP for charter opps.? I flew 135 in the oilfield back in the 90's and we were serious about not exceeding the 14hr day rule. Now as CP for a 91 flight dept. we may have a long day once in a while but we normaly get a day room or have a long wait where we can snooz at the FBO.

Have him send me a resume, when the fatique flag is raised here you go to bed.

 

[timeless]

Once the freight/pax have been unloaded the crew can operate under part 91. This means that no duty or flight limits apply. So flying back empty from Mexico is legal even if you've already maxed out your duty or flight times. I've had some really long days because of this but I've never done it two or three days in a row.

 

[BEfly]

Once the freight/pax have been unloaded the crew can operate under part 91. This means that no duty or flight limits apply. So flying back empty from Mexico is legal even if you've already maxed out your duty or flight times. I've had some really long days because of this but I've never done it two or three days in a row.

You're still on duty though. That's the problem. Duty cannot exceed 14 hours on a day that consist of part 135 operations.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Pilot YIP is the recruiter for USA Jet.

If U want info, PM me with your email.

As he said, if you call fatigued, the Flight Follower says, "OK, call me when you get to the hotel." End of story.

Good luck!
cliff
CUN

 

[ackattacker]

You're still on duty though. That's the problem. Duty cannot exceed 14 hours on a day that consist of part 135 operations.

No, go back to Avbug's post. There are only rest requirements, not duty requirements. They sound like the same thing but they are not. You cannot accept a 135 flight if you don't have the required rest. But you can accept a 91 flight. During the 91 flight you are still on duty but don't have the rest that would be required if you were still 135.

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

mmmmm

 

[AIRMOTIVE]

ackattacker is right.

 

[goodgig]

See, I think this is part of the FAR's the FAA needs to clean up. It is absolutely stupid to have confusion here. The concept is not that difficult to spell out if the FAA really wanted to.
I was always under the impression that one drop spoiled the whole barrel. So if 135 was in the middle of the trip, the whole thing is to be flown under those times. Transportation not local in nature and all that.
At any rate, the dude needs a new job. The crappy part about that is that there is an ass for every sadle and someone else will have to do the same deal.

 

[icefr8dawg]

There is an operator out East here that talks to crews and handles things in that manner. People get their time and move on, one day they'll piss a pilot off enough to go to the FAA with a very serious book of enforceable violations.

 

[SEVEN]

Get out NOW. There is NO reason a pilot has to put up with crap from a bad 135 owner/operator. There are thousands of jobs out there now.

 

[ditchpilot]

Thanks to everyone for your advice.
He quit last week. No one got hurt or violated.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

What amazes me about these operators is that there is a POI someplace who knows damned well what the operators in his/her domain are doing. They do nothing about it. What we need is a bunch of letters to Congressmen demanding that the FAA enforce the regs against the unscrupulous operators.

I worked for a place where we were threatened if we wrote up an airplane. "We'll fix it when we get the part." I always wondered why the PMI didn't see a list of parts replaced and ask where the corresponding writeups were.

 

[pilotyip]

They operate because they are in compliance, look at Grand Air, Ameristar, how many planes crashed and they continued to operate. ATOS is supposed to fix this by going to the safety system where the operator proves to the POI that is works, as opposed to just having record showing you have met the intent of the reg. Clear as mud? Right?

 

[Maria]

What we need is a bunch of letters to Congressmen demanding that the FAA enforce the regs against the unscrupulous operators.

Doesn't help when the unscrupulous operators are on the Congressmens' re-election committee for the Congressmen that are part of the FAA's funding committee. :smash:

 

[leenick]

FAR's says it all

Looking for some insight from some 135 jet charter opperators.
I am a 91 driver who has a bud flying for a 135 jet charter company from mid-west running charters down to Mexico out of the U.S gulf coast which regularly exceeds the duty time by 4 and 5 hrs.

Here is the issue crew has complained to the CP and DO with no help other then a old letter stating in their op specs that they can exceed the duty time limites due to unforeseen delays.

He called the owner to inform him that he was shutting down a flight (due to fatigue)with 1 deadhead leg remaining after 16 hrs on duty for the 3rd day in a row. The owner informed him that he was never to tell him what to do with his company and that there is no fatigue issues with this schedule.

Is this SOP for charter opps.? I flew 135 in the oilfield back in the 90's and we were serious about not exceeding the 14hr day rule. Now as CP for a 91 flight dept. we may have a long day once in a while but we normaly get a day room or have a long wait where we can snooz at the FBO.

Ditchpilot, the FAR's will tell you what is the SOP for all operations. I find it very hard to believe that any Ops. Specs. will have you exceed 14 hours in a 24 hour period for duty time, or 8 to 10 hours of flying in a 24 hour period. If so, and if you do, then guess who will get the violation first. If you want to keep on exposing yourself to that type of operation, then you have no complaint, but I would depart the fix, and find another place to work.
If you want to prove a point, you can take a copy out of the GOM of the Ops. Specs, and get the correct answers from your POI. If that proves unsuccessful, then send copies and a letter to Washington for a full explanation.
Hope that helps, and you should really think about leaving this company before you end up with a violation. GOOD LUCK