135 Alernate Filing

[SDCFI]

Question. My company uses center-stored flight plans, so of course there is no alternate filed there. While 135 doesn't require the filing of an alternate (it only lists the fuel requirements), 91.169 does require it for any IFR flt plan unless the wx is above alt req's. I have not, nor have I known anyone who added an alternate to their center store when the wx was down. We don't have dispatch releases either, so that won't cover it. I'm wondering how we're covered legally not having filed an alternate if one is req'd, and also if I lose comm and wind up going missed at the dest because it's below mins, is ATC just going to clear the airspace in all directions for 100 miles? Where do they expect me to go?

 

[nosehair]

About filing an alternate

Sounds like a serious glitch in your company operations if you don't have a procedure to add an alternate to the stored/canned flight plan. Maybe no one wants to confront the "mechanical/procedural" part of this, and just let things roll as is. The Arrival ATC does NOT get any info on your "filed alternate". Lost comm does not mean you must go there. You must use your own best judgement about where to go based on actual weather conditions at the time. Even when you have radio, and go actual missed, ATC will ask your intentions. Telling them you want to go to your "filed alternate" tells them nothing - they will just have to come back with "...and where would that be, mmmh?"
So, writing in an airport in the flight plan box marked "Alternate" only provides a record of the fact that there was a legal alternate airport within your fuel range at the time you took off. Deciding where to go in a real missed approach is completely up to you at that time, and should be based on current, existing weather and fuel conditions existing at that time.

 

[whatwasthat?]

Our Op-Specs require an alternate based on 135 formulas. I always call FSS for a standard brief and to ask the specialist to enter my alternate, if necessary in the remarks. Since we too use canned flight plans they are not accessable. This way I'm on record for having checked the weather, NOTAMS and having an alternate on file. Basically CYA.

 

[avbug]

Your canned flight plan most certainly is accessible. You need only identify the changes that you would like the flight service specialist to make, and it's done. Not a problem.

As for filing an alternate; it's a legal requirement, but ATC won't know what you've filed; they can't see it, and it will take them some time to come up with your actual flight plan. When going missed in the real world, ATC will ask you about your intentions. If you're NoRad, then proceed as best you might. If you're in a radar environment, ATC will be watching your primary return, and if you have a functioning electrical system, your secondary return as well, and will track your actions.

If not, simply proceed as best you can decide given the latest information to either VFR conditions, or a viable alternate. It may or may not be what you filed; that's really irrelevant. ATC won't know what you filed, anyway. Conditions change. Choose an alternate based on the best information you have, and go to it.

 

[SDCFI]

In the year that I've been here at AMF no one has ever mentioned filing an alternate. I even asked the instructor during indoc when we were covering IFR ops what to do about filing one with a canned flt pln. He said it doesn't matter because like you guys said ATC doesn't know what it is anyway. While true, that obviously didn't answer my question from a legality standpoint, but his initials are BS and his tie doesn't quite come down to his beltline so you know how much I value his input (inside joke BTW). Guess it seems to be one of those things that won't come up unless the poop hits the fan and something bad happens, in which case hope you did CYA. Thanks all for your info.

 

[Dustin H]

SDCFI, I'm glad you brought this up because I had the same problem a few years ago when I was flying under canned flight plans. I'm curious to see what solutions might be brought up from others

This is what I did..

Calling flight service was absolutely no help as they said they couldn't access the canned flight plan to make changes.

I felt like my only option was to tell ATC once I got airborne to make a note to the flt plan for what alternate I wanted. I guess that may not have been my only option, but it was a quick and dirty solution that worked for me at the time. The only problem I ran into was most of the controllers acted like making the change to my flt plan put them out. Oh well, like mentioned above CYA.

 

[SDCFI]

Dustin - I've called FSS before too, to change the departure time of a canned flt plan to accomodate a late departure. They can do it, but they have to call the data center at the ARTCC where the flt plan is stored. If they're busy don't expect them to offer to do that. So really the only way to add an alternate is to either file a new flt plan, or tell ATC in the air. I've never heard of anyone having a problem with this, as far as getting in trouble with the FAA, so maybe it's a non-issue.

 

[dispatchguy]

I think its a non-issue, for as a 121 dispatcher, the filing message that my flight planning computer sends to center doesnt tell them what my filed alternates are either.

 

[whatwasthat?]

Briefers have told me that only the FSS where your flight plan was entered can access it (or even look at it for that matter). So you could call that one... However, stating an alternate during a briefing would be considered "filed" as the FSS is a part of the ATC system and everything is officially recorded.
I don't think the alternate even appears on the controllers flight strip so my only concern is the lawyers.

 

[CaSyndrm]

If FAR part 135 doesn't require alternates then could somebody please explain 135.219, 135.221, and 135.223