135.293 .297 .299

[idoitupsidedown]

We'll see if any of the FI scholars can back up my understanding of these three regs. I'm leaving my company around the 20th of june, and have a training event scheduled for the second week of june. it will be my 18 month mark, so my second 6 month checkride. if i had my first 6 month the first week of june '06 and my 12 month the first week of december '06, i would actually be legal to fly until the 30th of june this year, right? It's not that I'm worried about failing the checkride, but if I'd be legal until I leave the company, I'd rather not deal with the ride.

 

[mavrck]

yeah, you would fall into GRACE Month late. Legal for 135 til end of July.

 

[hawkerjet]

If it's your 18th month mark you'd be due for a 297 ( instrument check). if you miss that training event then you'd still be legal to fly as an FO not Captain.
Mavrck is correct about the grace month.

 

[idoitupsidedown]

Yeah, FO isn't an option. My FO is a stack of newspapers that I still need to throw out. Thanks for the responses.

 

[Rick1128]

It would depend on what your base month is. As I understand your information, you are scheduled to take your checkride during your due month. If that is correct, then you have no penalty for not taking the checkride. If you were in your grace month late, there could be a problem. It would depend on your company's POI.

 

[mavrck]

there is no actual training required for a .297. Its just a ride, no documented training is required beforehand. The .297 is the instrument competency check.

 

[Corp Pilot]

You are PIC qualified until Aug 1st

Your original training in December of 2005 would have consisted of a 293 (12 mos), 297 (6mos) and 299 (12 mos). June 06 you passed your required 297 then in Dec 2006 you passed all three again. Your next checking event would be the .297 which is due by the end of June 2007. You are actually legal until the end of July due to the grace month provision of 135.301.
If you are leaving on June 20th there is no requirement for you to pass any other check rides.
Good Luck
Corp Pilot

Section 135.301: Crewmember: Tests and checks, grace provisions, training to accepted standards.

(a) If a crewmember who is required to take a test or a flight check under this part, completes the test or flight check in the calendar month before or after the calendar month in which it is required, that crewmember is considered to have completed the test or check in the calendar month in which it is required.

 

[Excel'n]

Just in case you don't wrap this job up in June, read that regulation carefully. There is no grace month. You're not "good" until the end of July. It says that if you satisfy the requirement in July, it's the same as satisfying it in June...but if you don't satisfy it in July, currency will have expired at the end of June and July's flight will have been flown out of currency.

 

[Corp Pilot]

Exceln,
I used to have the same opinion as you until I had discussions with a number of FAA designated examiners and POIs. As a check airman and director of operations for the last 10 years, I have become acquainted with the FAA 8400 inspector's manual. The grace period provision is actually referred to as a 3 month eligibility period in the 8400 manual. If you do not complete the required checking the during the month due, month early or month late, you may still serve in revenue service but are required to complete a requal check thereafter.
I have pasted the paragraph from 8400 and also a link.
Hope this helps,

Corp Pilot

B.​

​

Eligibility Period. The eligibility period is a 3-month
period comprised of the calendar month before the month
in which training is due, the month in which training is
due, and the calendar month after the month in which
training is due. In both Part 121 and Part 135 operations,
required recurrent training or checking that is completed
any time during the eligibility period is considered to have
been completed during the month in which training is due.
A crewmember who has not completed all recurrent
training or checking requirements in the month due may be
scheduled and may serve in revenue service during the
remainder of the eligibility period, but not thereafter. A
flight crewmember who fails to complete all required
training and qualification modules within the eligibility
period must complete requalification training before serving​

in revenue operations.


www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8400/media/volume3/3_002_10.pdf -

 

[FlyingMoose]

Exceln,
I used to have the same opinion as you until I had discussions with a number of FAA designated examiners and POIs. As a check airman and director of operations for the last 10 years, I have become acquainted with the FAA 8400 inspector's manual. The grace period provision is actually referred to as a 3 month eligibility period in the 8400 manual. If you do not complete the required checking the during the month due, month early or month late, you may still serve in revenue service but are required to complete a requal check thereafter.
I have pasted the paragraph from 8400 and also a link.
Hope this helps,

Corp Pilot



B.

Eligibility Period. The eligibility period is a 3-month

period comprised of the calendar month before the month

in which training is due, the month in which training is
due, and the calendar month after the month in which
training is due. In both Part 121 and Part 135 operations,
required recurrent training or checking that is completed
any time during the eligibility period is considered to have
been completed during the month in which training is due.
A crewmember who has not completed all recurrent
training or checking requirements in the month due may be
scheduled and may serve in revenue service during the
remainder of the eligibility period, but not thereafter. A
flight crewmember who fails to complete all required
training and qualification modules within the eligibility
period must complete requalification training before serving​

in revenue operations.


www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8400/media/volume3/3_002_10.pdf -
​

Hi Corp Pilot,

I read your post and am familiar with the information in the 8400 and clearly understand what it states. However, this manual is for guidance to inspectors and POI's and is no where stated to be regulatory in nature. Although most POI's, examiners, and certainly all operators that would benefit from the "eligibility period" would be fine with that practice, the regulation (Part 135.301) clearly reads that it provides a grace provision if the required tests or flight checks are completed in the calendar month before or after the month it is required. By that regulation, if you do not complete it then you were not current since the last day of the month it was required.

In the worst case, if something happened that could result in legal action against you or the operator, it suspect it would be ruled by judges and lawyers applying the regulations in the CFR, not POI's following the 8400. That's the way I look at it.

This is another one of those regulatory situations that the FAA missed the mark on, like REST. In trying to make things easier for operators to comply with safety and training requirements, they create all kinds of exemptions, loopholes, and misapplied interpretations. IMO, all the exemptions, grace provisions, extensions, etc should be removed. Requirements should be clearly written and defined with no exceptions.

Anyway, to idoitupsidedown, in your case you will be leaving before the end of your 6th calendar month so there would be no currency issue unless all of the other checks and training events you described were completed using the grace provision; ie. your initial training was in Nov '05. Personally, I would never pass up an opportunity to complete a checkride (.293, IPC, etc.), though.

​

 

[Corp Pilot]

Flyin Moose,

I respect your opinion but I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one. I cannot find a case, nor do I know of one, where a pilot or operator had an action brought against them while in compliance with the guidance provided in 8400. 8400 is published for inspectors, pilots and operators and is used as guidance to comply with the CFRs. (I say pilots and operators because several FAA inspectors have told me to reference 8400)
I hear what you are saying but I would feel very comfortable walking into any court using any guidance published in 8400. A judge or jury would have a difficult if not impossible time issuing a penalty or fine to anyone following the FAA's own system of compliance.

We are in agreement as to the original question. He is legal through June.
I don't want this to turn into a long debate so I will end my contribution here.
You make some very valid points.

Take Care,

Corp Pilot

 

[simav8r]

B.

Eligibility Period. The eligibility period is a 3-month

period comprised of the calendar month before the month

in which training is due, the month in which training is
due, and the calendar month after the month in which
training is due. In both Part 121 and Part 135 operations,
required recurrent training or checking that is completed
any time during the eligibility period is considered to have
been completed during the month in which training is due.
A crewmember who has not completed all recurrent
training or checking requirements in the month due may be
scheduled and may serve in revenue service during the
remainder of the eligibility period, but not thereafter. A
flight crewmember who fails to complete all required
training and qualification modules within the eligibility
period must complete requalification training before serving
in revenue operations.

Keep in mind that this paragraph refers to training and qualification modules with regard to the execution of requalification training, not the currency requirements of 293, 297, and 299. Technically the regulations stand as written. You are legal under 301 only if a checkride and or training event is successfully completed. If no checkride or training event is completed, per the CFR all flying done in the "grace" month is not done in compliance with 293, 297, 299 as appropriate and prosecutable as such. Whether the FAA chooses to do so depends upon the severity of the infraction that leads to the discovery. In other words, it's all good until someone looses an eye, then the defecation hits the rotary oscilator and they'll throw everything they can at you.

To be safe, do not do any flying in the grace month provided under 135.301 unless you plan on taking a checkride. I agree with everyone else in that you are good until midnight on June 30, then you turn into a pumpkin.

FWIW​