135.225/Is ceiling a factor for starting an approach

[kilroy]

Under part 135.225 if you have the visiblity but 100 feet ceilings can you start the approach. Seems to be a gray area that the ceiling is not a determining factor in doing an approach

 

[starcheck1]

How low can ya go

shoot away....its legal since the approach is based on the vis only. I have shot many approaches at airports reporting 100 ft ovc and saw the lights at 200ft....at night ofcourse.

 

[deskjobssuck]

What starcheck said.

Visibility rules, baby!

 

[FracCapt]

Visibility is the ONLY thing, legally, that has to be met to pass the FAF. If you want to shoot an ILS with 1800RVR and ceiling 100indefinite(or even 0), it's legal.

 

[mavrck]

Yep, Vis is the only legal restiction. Now, turn the page and lets try this. Lets do this VOR approach. Weather is reported at 300 and 1. You need 750 and 1 mile to do the approach. Can you do this approach? Yes, but is it realistic that you are gonna actually get in? No. You will still be 450ft in the clouds so its a good bet you aint gonna see the field.

 

[cptsesso]

Lets look at 135 vs 91:



Sec. 135.225 - IFR: Takeoff, approach and landing minimums.

(a) No pilot may begin an instrument approach procedure to an airport unless --

(1) That airport has a weather reporting facility operated by the U.S. National Weather Service, a source approved by U.S. National Weather Service, or a source approved by the Administrator; and

(2) The latest weather report issued by that weather reporting facility indicates that weather conditions are at or above the authorized IFR landing minimums for that airport. (b) No pilot may begin the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure to an airport unless the latest weather reported by the facility described in paragraph (a)(1) of this section indicates that weather conditions are at or above the authorized IFR landing minimums for that procedure.

Sec. 91.175 - Takeoff and landing under IFR.

(d) Landing. No pilot operating an aircraft, except a military aircraft of the United States, may land that aircraft when the flight visibility is less than the visibility prescribed in the standard instrument approach procedure being used.



Part 91 states the visibility requirement and that is all.

Part 135 states "weather conditions are at or above the authorized IFR landing minimums for that procedure". It does not state visibility, it states "minimums for that procedure" which encompasses ceiling and visibility.

It has been a few years since I flew 135, but I take that as meaning no ceiling and vis, no approach under 135. Why would they even list a ceiling in the procedures for anyone if visibility was the only limiting factor.

I would check this out with your CP or Ops guy to clarify it.

 

[SDCFI]

Vis only!

Visibility is the only determining factor. Think of it this way: DA or MDA is only the minimum altitude you are allowed to descend to in order to maintain terrain clearance, they have nothing to do with wx.

 

[cptsesso]

I guess it has been a while since I had to worry about that stuff...

 

[Freightdog75]

no is the answer.

 

[100-1/2]

Terps

FAR 97.3 (e) Ceiling minimum means the minimum ceiling, expressed in feet above the surface of the airport, required for TAKEOFF or required for designating an airport as an ALTERNATE AIRPORT.


If you read into 135.225, you'll find reference to FAR 97 TERPS. FAR 97 largely originates from the FAA Operations Inspector's Handbook with regard to Terminal Operations under IFR. It is here (a very dry read BTW) where a the foundation originates to keep the metal seperated from incompatible and stationary objects. Welcome to Jeppessen and NOS. A guide disseminating this objective into a pictoral guide to conquering the soup by navigating the rubber to adequate pavement.

In simplistic dictation, In no IAP will you find a descript requirement for weather conditions TO INCLUDE associated CEILINGs. Only VISIBILITY. And this visibility requirement will change often on Nonprecision Approaches depending on the Aircraft Category A, B, C, D, or E. There is often a paranthetical reference to HAT, however, a reasonable expectation of when one may "breakout" on an approach, it is not a function of 135.225 OR 91.175 when initiating and completing an instrument approach procedure.

There are some VISUAL approach procedures, that have ceiling requirements. Still it is an instrument approach procedure to expedite traffic routing. It is likely the authors of 135.225 and 91.175 use the language "weather conditions" intending to encompass these procedures.

100-1/2