1261 days to go!

[UndauntedFlyer]

Good Grief. I don't even know where to begin with this. Actually I do:

You are having a problem with reading comprehension. It appears after repeated attempts, I cannot help you in this department. I will try one last time.

1) You launch too many straw man arguments. Please stop. Stick to the points I brought up if you wish to have a conversation. My thoughts were laid out very simple yet your entire rant (directed towards me) has pretty much nothing to do with what I wrote or what I believe. If you feel the need to get something off your chest or need a platform to pontificate, start a new thread but don't drag me into it.

2) I'm going to make this as simple as I can so you can "get it."

a. I do not care to debate the merits of the age 65 rule. It is what it is.

b. My point is VERY narrow. There are not many people on this forum.
Time and time again you come here to preach about how awesome the
lifting age 65 was and time and time again you are rebuffed by most
everyone here. I also said someone had to pay for that
great deal and it was the "15" or so people that frequent this forum and
thousands of others in the regionals, FO seats and those trying to just
enter the industry. Can you admit someone had to pay for this? Getting
to fly an extra 5 years is not a benefit when 5 years was taken from you.
We pilots have a shelf-life and when you consider the law of compounding
interest, we need to make the most as early as we can. Not late.

c. This is simple economics and math. Age 65 happened and many pilots
had to pay a price. Those who stagnated, were furloughed or never even
hired because of demand paid the price for this change of law. Those that
were established captains made out great! They already had their
upgrade and high wage scale and got to go an extra 5 years.

d. As for the commuting comment, you might want to re-read what I said.
This is painful having to re-explain this point and all others but here it is
again....I know it's a choice to commute (remember I fly airliners for a
living). My point was this: If I am to ever come close to recouping the
years of furlough and stagnation caused by age 65, I will have to accept a
poor quality of life...not because I want to but because I need to. I live in
my domicile but it is a senior domicile. I have chosen to make less money
and maintain a quality of life for my family.

e. You do not have the right to call those who paid for this law selfish.
When you do it lacks any semblance of class. Thousands lost out big on
this yet I know thousands will benefit in the future. We paid for it so
others can reap it. So please don't come here (where your point has
been very unwelcome today as in the past) and rub our noses in how
great this was. It was great for thousands of captains and it is great for
everyone getting hired today. But telling us we have to fly 5 years longer
to be where we would have been is not what I call a "good deal."

I hope you understand my point now.

Your major point seems to be that someone has to pay for the bonus 5-years of employment that the senior captains enjoyed. That is false. No one has to pay for anything when there is stagnation. When there is stagnation there are just the lucky people who keep their high paying captain jobs and those that are not as lucky and are stuck at the bottom or are furloughed. When there was nearly total stagnation from 1970 to 1985, some pilots kept their jobs and some were furloughed or became unemployed because their airline ceased operations, such as Braniff. Remember, I was furloughed twice for a total of 4-years, many of my colleagues were furloughed for 7-years and one of my friends who was hired just 4-weeks before me was never furloughed. He was just lucky and the others were not as lucky. I do not know of anyone who thought somebody should pay them for the 10+ years of stagnation in the industry, or that the lucky ones should pay the unlucky. It's just part of the airline business. So, sorry, I just don't understand you and the other FI cry babies who think those who got lucky on the age-65 rule change owe you anything, or that anybody owes you anything. They were just lucky. If your neighbor wins the $100 million dollar lottery, does he owe anybody anything? No, he doesn't owe anybody anything. and he is not a bad person or a pig if he keep it all, gives it to all his relatives or who every his wants. He is just lucky and I don't think anyone should begrudge him of anything.

It was great for thousands of captains and it is great for everyone getting hired today.

Yes, Yes, Yes! I agree with you on this. But my continuing point is that while it was unfortunate for those on furlough, and those who were trying to get into the airline pilot business, those people have moved on and are probably back flying or ahead of where they would have been. Those people were just unlucky, the same as everyone is when there is a normal downturn in the industry, the same as there was many times in the past. But don't you understand this, no body owes them anything.

The senior pilots won the "Aviation Lottery." I lost and so did others. So what. The Chicago Cubs are my favorite baseball team but they lose most of their games. Do you think major league baseball owes them something. No, of course not. It's just part of the game or the business, just the same as the airline business. Sometimes it's luck and sometimes it's because of bad management. For a player, it just the luck of the draw. For a pilot, it's the same.

 

[Mamma]

Once again your rant is of no relative value. We are not crying or whining. We are just saying ******************** the f' up. We bought the lunch that the geezers served up with their seniority grab. Maybe a "thank you" would be in order. But with all due respect, please quit discounting math and logic when you say everyone was a winner in this. Thousands would have to work 5 extra years to be where they would have been had this not happened. It is what it is and there's no changing it. We just get tired of senile geezers like you peddling mounds of BS.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Once again your rant is of no relative value. We are not crying or whining. We are just saying ******************** the f' up. We bought the lunch that the geezers served up with their seniority grab. Maybe a "thank you" would be in order. But with all due respect, please quit discounting math and logic when you say everyone was a winner in this. Thousands would have to work 5 extra years to be where they would have been had this not happened. It is what it is and there's no changing it. We just get tired of senile geezers like you peddling mounds of BS.

I think it's really funny that the facts disprove everything your group sez. Now you have a new point of view, but before the age change all we heard was how unsafe it would be to let pilot's fly past age 60. Of course you know, I knew, and everybody knew that was all BS. 5-years post the age change, age-65 is now proven to not be a safety issue.

Your current argument is, again, BS, and just reaching for straws to justify your bad luck. Again, as I have said, it's just the way an airline career goes. Some get lucky in their careers and some don't. I missed the good luck on the date for the age change, and as I have said, if I was hired 4-weeks earlier I would not have ever been furloughed. Instead, I was furloughed and had 15-years of stagnation once recalled. I also had a large portion of my pension taken by the young ALPA crowd. Yes, we sued ALPA, a they had to pay $50+ million for their actions but the pilots only recovered pennies on the dollar. But with all this bad luck, I'm not inclined to blame anyone for that. Unjustly though, your group just continually sez that you are paying for the good life of others.

Mamma, get a life and be happy. You have a flying job. You get to fly a jet. How cool is that? Others clean your jet inside and out, others do your jet's flight planning, others fuel your jet, others deal with the passengers and their problems, others load the bags, others arrange for your transportation and hotels; and then, all you do is walk to the jet, get in the cockpit, put on your white flying gloves and fly. It doesn't get much better than that. Yes, you are right, white gloves are optional.

Some crew are happy with that dream job, but I'm sure that you and most of your friends here at FI, once they get to FL180, do nothing but complain. First it's about the crew desk, then dispatch, management, the F/A's, your spouse, your kids, the Union, Obama and of course, the guys who are flying past age-60 and how you are paying for that.

Mamma, your life sounds terrible but really, if you look at it, you're a lucky person. How would you like to be stuck in a cubical all day like so many are. Flying sure beats that.

 

[SIG600]

+++ but doesn't fit into the me! me! me! generation.

The baby boomers are the biggest me generation ever. Easiest case in point, social security. My generation will never see a dime from what we have and will continue to have taken from us.

Age 65 was paid for by everyone below you. It was a windfall for those that failed to plan ahead, and will force those that could to work five years longer than they may have wanted to.

Mamma if they understood point B... We wouldn't be here. You're pissing into the wind.

 

[SIG600]

I think it's really funny that the facts disprove everything your group sez. Now you have a new point of view, but before the age change all we heard was how unsafe it would be to let pilot's fly past age 60. Of course you know, I knew, and everybody knew that was all BS. 5-years post the age change, age-65 is now proven to not be a safety issue.

Your current argument is, again, BS, and just reaching for straws to justify your bad luck. Again, as I have said, it's just the way an airline career goes. Some get lucky in their careers and some don't. I missed the good luck on the date for the age change, and as I have said, if I was hired 4-weeks earlier I would not have ever been furloughed. Instead, I was furloughed and had 15-years of stagnation once recalled. I also had a large portion of my pension taken by the young ALPA crowd. Yes, we sued ALPA, a they had to pay $50+ million for their actions but the pilots only recovered pennies on the dollar. But with all this bad luck, I'm not inclined to blame anyone for that. Unjustly though, your group just continually sez that you are paying for the good life of others.

Mamma, get a life and be happy. You have a flying job. You get to fly a jet. How cool is that? Others clean your jet inside and out, others do your jet's flight planning, others fuel your jet, others deal with the passengers and their problems, others load the bags, others arrange for your transportation and hotels; and then, all you do is walk to the jet, get in the cockpit, put on your white flying gloves and fly. It doesn't get much better than that. Yes, you are right, white gloves are optional.

Some crew are happy with that dream job, but I'm sure that you and most of your friends here at FI, once they get to FL180, do nothing but complain. First it's about the crew desk, then dispatch, management, the F/A's, your spouse, your kids, the Union, Obama and of course, the guys who are flying past age-60 and how you are paying for that.

Mamma, your life sounds terrible but really, if you look at it, you're a lucky person. How would you like to be stuck in a cubical all day like so many are. Flying sure beats that.

Roger Cohen? Is that you? Clueless....

 

[Mamma]

I think it's really funny that the facts disprove everything your group sez. Now you have a new point of view, but before the age change all we heard was how unsafe it would be to let pilot's fly past age 60. Of course you know, I knew, and everybody knew that was all BS. 5-years post the age change, age-65 is now proven to not be a safety issue.

Your current argument is, again, BS, and just reaching for straws to justify your bad luck. Again, as I have said, it's just the way an airline career goes. Some get lucky in their careers and some don't. I missed the good luck on the date for the age change, and as I have said, if I was hired 4-weeks earlier I would not have ever been furloughed. Instead, I was furloughed and had 15-years of stagnation once recalled. I also had a large portion of my pension taken by the young ALPA crowd. Yes, we sued ALPA, a they had to pay $50+ million for their actions but the pilots only recovered pennies on the dollar. But with all this bad luck, I'm not inclined to blame anyone for that. Unjustly though, your group just continually sez that you are paying for the good life of others.

Mamma, get a life and be happy. You have a flying job. You get to fly a jet. How cool is that? Others clean your jet inside and out, others do your jet's flight planning, others fuel your jet, others deal with the passengers and their problems, others load the bags, others arrange for your transportation and hotels; and then, all you do is walk to the jet, get in the cockpit, put on your white flying gloves and fly. It doesn't get much better than that. Yes, you are right, white gloves are optional.

Some crew are happy with that dream job, but I'm sure that you and most of your friends here at FI, once they get to FL180, do nothing but complain. First it's about the crew desk, then dispatch, management, the F/A's, your spouse, your kids, the Union, Obama and of course, the guys who are flying past age-60 and how you are paying for that.

Mamma, your life sounds terrible but really, if you look at it, you're a lucky person. How would you like to be stuck in a cubical all day like so many are. Flying sure beats that.

My life sounds terrible? Riiiiiight....

I'm not a geezer sitting around in his diapers posting senile crap. I'm going to have to bow out of this chat as you are all over the place with false accusations, misplaced "wisdom" and a massive inability towards reading comprehension. I tried to explain this in terms a small child could understand but it is failing to sink in with you. Good luck with your future.

 

[Flopgut]

The old, senior, captains took a windfall. Most all of them did so completely ungraciously, BUT they already lost their asses [$], and were more than halfway to complete aholes anyway. For everyone else: Is it not most correct to say no one benefits from 65 until they work past 60? Even a kid who solos today? That's kind if how I view it anyway. Like in my own case, I figure if I'm out at 60 then I've not been a hypocrite (something I wish to avoid*)

Also, the safety issue: I believe what we're seeing in the world today is that the entire system is strained. The human endeavor of getting an airliner from a to b is faltering. We've seen specific airlines and Countries move more toward world standards that are laxed and I think we're going to see that stop. ICAO, and trying to match ICAO "standards" is a mistake in my opinion. This was a safer business when we didn't feel a need to follow or change our long standing rules to match anyone else's. We know age 60 had a perfect record. Are we going to have 40+ years of status quo to learn as much about 65? I hope so, but more than likely we'll see a health component levied that will over ride a basic maximum age.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The old, senior, captains took a windfall. Most all of them did so completely ungraciously, BUT they already lost their asses [$], and were more than halfway to complete aholes anyway. For everyone else: Is it not most correct to say no one benefits from 65 until they work past 60? Even a kid who solos today? That's kind if how I view it anyway. Like in my own case, I figure if I'm out at 60 then I've not been a hypocrite (something I wish to avoid*)

Also, the safety issue: I believe what we're seeing in the world today is that the entire system is strained. The human endeavor of getting an airliner from a to b is faltering. We've seen specific airlines and Countries move more toward world standards that are laxed and I think we're going to see that stop. ICAO, and trying to match ICAO "standards" is a mistake in my opinion. This was a safer business when we didn't feel a need to follow or change our long standing rules to match anyone else's. We know age 60 had a perfect record. Are we going to have 40+ years of status quo to learn as much about 65? I hope so, but more than likely we'll see a health component levied that will over ride a basic maximum age.

Flopgut: I must comment that most all of your posts show some thought and understanding of the industry.

 

[808pilot]

of all the things said so far this is the best... i think about his everytime i see the agents and cleaners dealing with all the nonsense... but pilots love to bitch... we are really good at it...

quote: You have a flying job. You get to fly a jet. How cool is that? Others clean your jet inside and out, others do your jet's flight planning, others fuel your jet, others deal with the passengers and their problems, others load the bags, others arrange for your transportation and hotels; and then, all you do is walk to the jet, get in the cockpit, put on your white flying gloves and fly. It doesn't get much better than that. Yes, you are right, white gloves are optional.

Some crew are happy with that dream job, but I'm sure that you and most of your friends here at FI, once they get to FL180, do nothing but complain. First it's about the crew desk, then dispatch, management, the F/A's, your spouse, your kids, the Union, Obama and of course, the guys who are flying past age-60 and how you are paying for that.

 

[808pilot]

and i'm not targeting anyone specific...