1261 days to go!

[X-rated]

Age 65 hurt.....but nothing like what's coming with the 1000 wide body Dubai orders. Flooding the world with cheap government funded seats. It will kill international competition and the pending pilot shortage.

Have you ever priced EK tickets? With the exception of EY, they are always at least 25 percent more expensive than the competition. I fly three or four full fare business class round trips per year to the States on EK, and the extra premium is well worth it. Well, it's worth it since by boss picks up the tab anyway...

Why will ordering 1000 airplanes kill a potential pilot shortage? That makes no sense. It may kill some domestic based US pilot opportunities, but American expat pilots will always be in demand. And, why do you feel US pilots are entitled to every international passenger anyway? Provide a better service and compete. Stop whining about the government investing in EK; They're profitable, so your point is moot.

You want to blame someone for why EK is kicking US carriers tails? Take a good hard look at your own carrier's FA union contract. It may work well for the old, bitchy, burnt out, useless, sky hags, but I think I'm going to stay with the young, hot, service focused Emirates girls if I have the option. I generally enjoy those 16 hour flights; I would dread it on UA or Delta.

 

[Flopgut]

Stop whining about the government investing in EK; They're profitable, so your point is moot.

Which government are you talking about? Because I'm not about to stop complaining about US tax breaks for Gulf airlines. Not much can be done about the assistance Emirates gets from their own government. Other than make sure it remains a talking point.

Question about the fares: When a US airline quotes a fare, we have to include all known fees and taxes. Gulf airlines may or may not (most not). Is that the 25% difference that you've observed?

 

[X-rated]

Which government are you talking about? Because I'm not about to stop complaining about US tax breaks for Gulf airlines. Not much can be done about the assistance Emirates gets from their own government. Other than make sure it remains a talking point.

Question about the fares: When a US airline quotes a fare, we have to include all known fees and taxes. Gulf airlines may or may not (most not). Is that the 25% difference that you've observed?

I was taking about Emirates being owned and supported by the Dubai government. I wasn't aware of any US tax breaks to the Gulf airlines. I completely agree that is nonsensical. Can you give an example?

Just as a little test, I just priced the lowest cost round trip Business Class tickets from DXB to IAD. I used Kayak, Emirates, and Etihad's websites. I picked random travel dates of Jan 2nd departures returning Jan 9th before I started looking.

KLM: 4531
DAL: 4579
UAL: 4863
EK: 5433
EY: 6777 (*AUH-IAD-AUH)

I usually see the EK tickets between 6 and 10K with the other airlines having results similar to those shown. I'm not sure why EK is so inexpensive on these particular dates, but they are still in the ballpark of 25 percent more expensive than US airlines. So, my point stands. They are by no means "cheap government funded seats". I'll agree they are expensive government supported seats, but why does that matter? Price isn't what drives customers from UA or Delta to EK. In fact, they provide a good argument to suggest raising fares for increased services in the long haul market makes sense. The trick is, you actually need to increase service with the money and not suck it all up on retained earnings or increased wages.

 

[Flopgut]

I was taking about Emirates being owned and supported by the Dubai government. I wasn't aware of any US tax breaks to the Gulf airlines. I completely agree that is nonsensical. Can you give an example?

Primarily US government Import/Export Bank (EXIM) loans that are below lending rates available to US airlines. Meant for "developing" countries, somehow Emirates is allowed to take advantage of these.

http://benchmarkdaily.com/2013/04/07/exim-bank-defends-credit-guarantee-to-emirates-others/

It would be one thing if US airlines could get the same cheap money from our own government, but we can't.

Also the proposed Customs and Border Patrol preclearance facility in Doha amounts to US enabling Gulf carriers and harming US airlines. That shouldn't happen.

I can't argue with what you're saying about service. I don't know what our answer is. I watched the 787 leave the other day on an inaugural flight somewhere. Big brand new terminal, very nice new airplane, and a whole bunch of elderly, senior mama FAs. It looked like a joke; like the passengers were being punked.

Thanks for the feedback on ticket price. I've seen the same thing myself. At this point, we [US legacies] can't lower prices. That's not our problem.

 

[Mamma]

You did not mention majority rule, what a majority of the pilots want sets how a union will go on an issue. Senior pilots run the unions, so it went with things that senior pilots like.

Majority rule? Where have you been? APA was against this. ALPA members voted "no" for this but Prater skewed the results and was subsequently fired. No Yip, this was working outside the collective bargaining process and was by no means majority rule.

 

[Mamma]

FBM,

Which airline furloughed due to age 65? I know of none. Plenty of career advancement was stagnated, and age 65 was a contributor. Recession, poor management, poorly concieved contracts probably.

Alaska furloughed almost 10% of their pilots after 65. We were a little overstaffed after the MDs went away but age 65 threw gasoline on the overstaffing problem. This should have been phased in over a few years.

 

[pilotyip]

Majority rule? Where have you been? APA was against this. ALPA members voted "no" for this but Prater skewed the results and was subsequently fired. No Yip, this was working outside the collective bargaining process and was by no means majority rule.

So this means senior pilots don't run union for their beneift? How does B scale fit into this?

 

[PCL_128]

So this means senior pilots don't run union for their beneift? How does B scale fit into this?

This always cracks me up. Union leaders are elected by the overall membership, not just the senior. If you're electing people who are only looking out for themselves, whether they're junior or senior, you're the one to blame. Unlike corporations, unions are democracies.

 

[pilotyip]

So explain "B" if the union was looking out for the brotherhood and not just themselves.

 

[PCL_128]

So explain "B" if the union was looking out for the brotherhood and not just themselves.

You ask that question as if the union had good options available to them. Sometimes the only choice you have is a bad choice or a worse choice.