1200 hours for regional FOs???

[100LL... Again!]

I wanted to start a parallel thread. This thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of this idea. This thread is to discuss the possible outcomes of this idea.

So, suppose that:

#1 The regs were changed to require 1200tt for 121 FO.

#2 The reg JUST went into effect.

Please speculate on the outcome, but I don't want to debate the idea, since the other thread is already there.

My idea on what would happen:

1) Occasional TERRIBLE shortages of FOs at regionals with PFT or low pay.

2) VERY little PFT and bridge, since there are SOME who can buy their way to 300tt, but not nearly as many who could buy their way to 1200tt. GIA out of business.

3) CFIs take their job more seeriously since they are going to be there a while.

 

[The_Russian]

Honestly it doesn't matter how much time you have. The FAA cannot judge the quality of time that a pilot is getting. I have met 1200 hour CFI's that still don't understand the basic concept of the maneuvers in the PTS. I have also met CFI's that cant make competent decisions or even stick an airplane.

There are a few thousand hour pilots that I know that just flew in circles to build time, learning nothing. No hard training and picking up bad habits the whole way. Take note that all these guys I know are at the airlines now!

I think the problem is the easiness of training at the regionals. People pass checkrides at these regionals and I don't know how they do it. Especially since I flew on a lesson with them a month before and they couln't track or hold on ANY ground based navigation.

And if CFI's were paid as the should, then we wouldn't have babies teaching babies. Three years of teaching killed me financially and I couldn't even get an interview!

Don't get me wrong, it is a good idea. But it cannot be measured.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Two solutions:

More strict training standards. Regardless of time. This still allows low time pilots an opportunity for employment, and makes completion of the training cycle more competitive.

Or...

Higher insurance hourly minimums for specific airframes for both seats.

 

[Sphrynxlla]

babies teaching babies? what does that mean? 250tt teaching 100tt guys?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Higher insurance hourly minimums for specific airframes for both seats.

Considering that a great many of the RJ Captains do not have enough time to be insured on your average corporate jet for the left seat, that is an interesting idea.

 

[Nalo Boy]

babies teaching babies? what does that mean? 250tt teaching 100tt guys?

thats not something new is it?

 

[The_Russian]

babies teaching babies? what does that mean? 250tt teaching 100tt guys?

Yes. And I was there too. A bit more experiance would have made me a better instructor at the time, but I eventually got it as others do.

 

[Sphrynxlla]

yeah, i had around 230 when i started instructing in a twin...i knew my plane and did a good job...but I had A LOT to learn about aviation.. But it makes you better. TT is not a good indication of skill. I agree with yall who said quality is what makes the skill.... that is a huge part of a persons growth as a pilot.

 

[huncowboy]

my 5 sec take on it:

1) No shortage. 135 would easily supply FOs. Also most CFIs that are not going trough academies have 1200TT anyhow. I am instructing at one and I will have around 1000tt once I will be sent to interview... so all I would need is a few more months to instruct. I woudl say 3 or max 4. No real shortage.

2) I agree. Bridge and PFT programs would have a hard time. Sounds ok to me.

3) I don't see why CFIs wouldn't take the job seriously? If anything, the frustration for those CFIs who really don't like to instruct would further increase. It would only make it worse. The #1 reason I would not like to sit in a 152 any longer than needed is financial. It is hard to survive. The second reason would be safety. Flying around in a relatively busy alert area in an old single engine GA plane over the glades is dangerous. Other than those two reasons, CFIing is my first job ever that I enjoyed, not to say that I would not take an ERJ job with my nill time if one would be offered.

 

[88_MALIBU]

Was there an accident or something that triggered these ideas? Or is it just some current FO's and Captains who are upset?

 

[The_Russian]

jetbluedog posting either agrivation or flamebait is what started it.

 

[flyinglow]

I wanted to start a parallel thread. This thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of this idea. This thread is to discuss the possible outcomes of this idea.

So, suppose that:

#1 The regs were changed to require 1200tt for 121 FO.

#2 The reg JUST went into effect.

Please speculate on the outcome, but I don't want to debate the idea, since the other thread is already there.

My idea on what would happen:

1) Occasional TERRIBLE shortages of FOs at regionals with PFT or low pay.

2) VERY little PFT and bridge, since there are SOME who can buy their way to 300tt, but not nearly as many who could buy their way to 1200tt. GIA out of business.

3) CFIs take their job more seeriously since they are going to be there a while.

4) How about wages go up for regional FO's

 

[FlyingBuckI]

I don't see why CFIs wouldn't take the job seriously? If anything, the frustration for those CFIs who really don't like to instruct would further increase. It would only make it worse.

This is the never-ending CFI problem. I was lucky enough to have several very good instructors who loved to teach, but many students end up with someone who is only instructing to build time, which is terrible.

I'm stating the obvious here, but the quality of pilots we put out is only as good as the effort made by the instructor. I've actually had to re-teach many of my students because they developed bad habits from a previous CFI, and it's hard to break them. Leave instructing to those who love to teach, pay them better wages, and leave the poor flying to non-professionals.

Back on topic...good pilots are always learning, so the fact that regionals are hiring incompetent pilots is a shame. If they want the job, they should be willing to train for it and study as much as needed. Buy some sim time, get some recurrent training or just give up if you're that lazy. Indoc/IOE should better eliminate these bad pilots and ensure good operational knowledge to those who are willing to work for it.

 

[Smacktard]

yeah, i had around 230 when i started instructing in a twin...i knew my plane and did a good job...but I had A LOT to learn about aviation.. But it makes you better. TT is not a good indication of skill. I agree with yall who said quality is what makes the skill.... that is a huge part of a persons growth as a pilot.

16 years old. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** Sphrynx, you piss me off.

 

[mooser]

I wanted to start a parallel thread. This thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of this idea. This thread is to discuss the possible outcomes of this idea.

So, suppose that:

#1 The regs were changed to require 1200tt for 121 FO.

#2 The reg JUST went into effect.

Please speculate on the outcome, but I don't want to debate the idea, since the other thread is already there.

My idea on what would happen:

1) Occasional TERRIBLE shortages of FOs at regionals with PFT or low pay.

2) VERY little PFT and bridge, since there are SOME who can buy their way to 300tt, but not nearly as many who could buy their way to 1200tt. GIA out of business.

3) CFIs take their job more seeriously since they are going to be there a while.

Might bring pay rates up???

Mooser

 

[100LL... Again!]

I think pay would go up a lot.

I'm not sure charter would be affected. Since you can go regional with less than 135 mins, many people who go freight are choosing to do so, not so much out of necessity.

I think the big advantages are goodbye to large scale bridge program feasability (too expensive to get to 1300tt), and hopefully higher FO pay.

Only the wealthiest people could buy 1200 hours, not enough to dilute the pilot pool.


Possibility for big trouble:

GIA type outfits offer work-for-free to 1200tt, or even pay-your-way to 1200tt at 5 bucks an hour, or some crap like that.

Possible, isn't it?