1200-1500hrs For Minimum Requirements

[jaybird]

EJACapt, you make a good point. I was pissed when my boss wouldn't upgrade me into the Seminole at work. I had just got my MEI, but I only had around 300 dual given. He then told me they used to not upgrade into the mooney until 500 dual given about five years ago (just an example). I guess myself and many others just thought it was normal to see people go the regionals with less than 1000tt.

 

[surplus1]

It is possible to have 10,000 hours of experience or 1 hour of experience repeated 10,000 times.

Quantity does not always equate to quality. I've flown with some "low time" pilots that were sharp as a tack, eager and competent. I've also flown with high time pilots that were lazy, complacent and thought they knew it all.

The quality of the training program is a major factor in developing the overall professional pilot. Poor training often equals low quality regardless of how much flying time one may have.

Our new military pilots often have very low time by civilian standards, yet they fly the world's most sophisticated equipment and do an outstanding job. They also benefit from outstanding training.

In contrast, civilian pilot training (outside the airlines) is often a case of the blind leading the blind. That's not the pilots' fault but it is the systems fault. It's amazing to think that a pilot with a brand new II rating, 250 hours and no real weather experience can actually "teach" instrument flying. In a lot of Regional Airline programs, the "instructors" know little about flying, less about teaching, love to intimidate and get the jobs because of their "popularity" with management rather than their piloting or teaching skills.

The rush to upgrade at some regionals is yet another problem. Often it comes way too soon and results in "mistakes" and discipline. The discipline in turn often keeps the pilot from moving on to bigger and better things. The "mistakes" are seldom related to physical manipulation of the controls. Most often it's a judgement error that comes due to inexperience and lack of maturity. It may be true that you don't learn much about what to do by sitting in the right seat, but you do learn a g reat deal about what NOT to do.

In the hiring arena, most of the decisions on who is hired or what minimums are required are made by Human Resources people, not pilots. Getting an airline job unfortunately has little to do with your flying abilities and a whole lot to do with your ability to project the stereotype that HR people want. As the Brits would say, it's a sticky wicket.

 

[bobbysamd]

Excellent post. It says it all, especially the comments about civilian training and the regional H.R., intimidation and maturity scenario. The stereotype observation is particularly cogent.

 

[Floyd94]

My uncle who is a retired 747 Ca with United was originally hired with a total of 500 hours total time. Plus he didn't even go to college. A lot of that happened a couple of years ago(late 90's early 2000's) so as you can see everything in this industry happens in cycles. Im sure there are a lot of other guys out there flying like my uncle who were hired with very low time and are now sitting in the left seat of a heavy jet. As my uncle didn't retire due to age, he had a heart attack which caused him to loose his medical. However he is still very active with the union. So as far as the hiring stats being "completely unrealistic", I guess it just depends on the ole economics theory.. supply and demand.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hiring at low mins

Well, for that matter, I've heard that during the 1960s airlines hired at 500 hours. I heard that Frontier hired at 500 and hired those with only a Private ticket during those years. I met some fellow years ago whose wife was a Frontier FA. He told me he walked in the door in Denver and was told he could be hired. I don't quite believe this story because the guy was somewhat of a blowhard, but I pass it on because it may be of interest.

 

[Freight Dog]

One of ALPA heroes - Rick Dubinsky was hired with 277 hours.
Times change.

 

[Sppedmode]

To be honest guys, I don't think the minimums have changed. The regionals are still 1000/100, 1200/200 or 1500/300 for the most part. However, the competitive times are up significantly due to all the furloughs.
So, if you are asking when will the mins change, my answer is they haven't.
If you are a CFI with 1000/100 and asking "When am I going to get hired?" I would have to say possibley 3rd to 4th quarter of this year and things will definately pick up in 2003. Just keep flying and building time so you look that much better to the airlines when they do start hiring again.

 

[bobbysamd]

Spam 'em

I always heard that it's a good idea to start sending in stuff when you are at or near the PUBLISHED mins, so, if, e.g., Mesa is (still) hiring at 1000/100, send in your resume. It has always been true that the actual competitive times deviate from the published times. In that regard, send in stuff, but don't expect much interest until you are at least 1500/500 with your ATP. In addition, 135 PIC will give you a real advantage over the flight instructors. It goes without saying that a little legit turbine will be icing on the cake.

My favorite examples of unbelievably low mins always were Aloha Island Air or whatever it was called in the late '80s, which at one time had something like 500/50, and Scenic, which were just as ridiculous.

 

[bigD]

Hey! There ain't nothing wrong with 500/50!

Yeah yeah I know - I have more work to do. Heh!

 

[Freight Dog]

Re: Spam 'em

I always heard that it's a good idea to start sending in stuff when you are at or near the PUBLISHED mins, so, if, e.g., Mesa is (still) hiring at 1000/100, send in your resume. It has always been true that the actual competitive times deviate from the published times. In that regard, send in stuff, but don't expect much interest until you are at least 1500/500 with your ATP. In addition, 135 PIC will give you a real advantage over the flight instructors. It goes without saying that a little legit turbine will be icing on the cake.

My favorite examples of unbelievably low mins always were Aloha Island Air or whatever it was called in the late '80s, which at one time had something like 500/50, and Scenic, which were just as ridiculous.

Bobby, we were hiring with 250 hours up until 1999 and it was pitiful. But then again, you'd go into a Twin Otter, and back in the 80's, that's all we flew. FO in the Twin Otter... you don't need more than a warm body. Since the Twotters are gone... and now all we fly are Dash 8's... the mins have gone up, so most people hired these days have over 2000 hours with 300-500ME which is more in line with the rest of the industry.